Author Topic: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it  (Read 5198 times)

Offline Jerry Liebler

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My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« on: October 29, 2007, 06:12:36 PM »
Some time ago I posted that I wanted a low profile satellite dish.  I wanted to be able to use dish network and have it work in all of the original 48 states.  The KVH A6 is low enough but only works on direct TV and it's coverage is marginal along the Canadian border.   So I kept looking and found the Raysat Speedray 1000.  After looking at their web site and finding that their warranty was void if not installed by one of their 'certified' installers.  I ended up becoming a certified installer and a dealer.  Just when I placed my order they ran out of stock.  Now 2 months later they have lots of them again and I finally have one.  This unit is designed to mount to the roof rack of the typical SUV.  I'll soon have the only 4107 with a roof rack like that.  Well not exactly, I'm making kind of a miniature version with 2 crossbars 28" long spaced the required 37" apart but mounted to two of the roof ribs that happen to be on 36" centers.  The crossbars are 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" x1/8" aluminum channels (open on the bottom). The bottoms of the cross bars will touch the roof at the center and they'll supported on each end by brackets made of 3 short pieces of 1 1/2"x 1/8 aluminum angle.  The plan is to rivet the brackets together and to the channel with 5 ea 1/8" rivets in each joint.  The plan is to drill and tap 2ea. 1/4 28 into the ribs and use SS bolts through the bottom piece of the bracket to attach them (lots of silicone of course).  If it all comes together I'll be using the supplied hardware, just mounting it to my homebrew roof rack.  It looks like I'll be able to keep the added height  under 6".  Once it's mounted I'll have to run the coax to the indoor unit and receiver which will be mounted above the AC unit in the rear cap.  I've already got the audio and video wiring in to the 2 TV locations and 12 volt power to the intended indoor unit location.  BTW the Raysat indoor unit supplies  the power to the satellite receiver (it has an inverter in it to power the 120 volt receiver) and only requires 12 volt input power. Then hopefully some time next week I'll have  in motion satellite TV.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120     
 

Offline Paladin

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 06:21:15 PM »
Hey Jerry,

What does one of them there units cost?

-Dave

'75 MC-8   'Event Horizon'
8V71  HT740
Salt Lake City, Utah

"Have bus will travel read the card of the man, a Knight without armor in a savage land...."

Offline Jerry Liebler

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 06:33:25 PM »
Dave,
    MSRP is $2795+shipping for the one I got which does both dish network and direct TV.  That's without receiver.  I got the (new) receiver I'll be using off of Ebay for $100 including shipping.  I paid $1965 including shipping for the antenna package.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

Dreamscape

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2007, 06:40:40 PM »
Jerry,

Glad to hear it all worked out for you. I know you were excited about it when I visited you several months ago.

Good Luck and let us know how it all worked out.

Paul

Offline Utahclaimjumper

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2007, 06:43:44 PM »
I will be recieving any day now the Winegard unit (32" dia.X15"high, mounts flat on the roof and recieves Dish, Direct and two others. Delivered to my door $1230.00 full in motion using internal GPS for location, all automatic one touch remote.>>>Dan
Utclmjmpr  (rufcmpn)
 EX 4106 (presently SOB)
Cedar City, Ut.
 72 VW Baja towed

Offline Jerry Liebler

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 06:47:44 PM »
Paul,
   It ain't done yet!!!  Hopefully next week.
Dan,
   I sure wish I could tolerate the height.  My barn door opening is only 12' so I had to get ultra low profile which costs much more.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

Offline Utahclaimjumper

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 07:20:04 PM »
Jerry, I did not know they were available that low.>>>Dan
Utclmjmpr  (rufcmpn)
 EX 4106 (presently SOB)
Cedar City, Ut.
 72 VW Baja towed

Offline Jerry Liebler

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 07:37:44 PM »
Dan,
    It's really neat very high tech.  It's not an ordinary dish at all but uses what's called an electronically steered 'phased array'.  Inside it are hundreds of tiny antennas which are added together after each has been delayed just the right amount.  The control of the delays forms a steerable 'beam' in the elevation direction.  It still rotates a big platter with all the antennas on it to control the azimuth.  It too uses GPS position information to know where to aim.  The KVH version tracks down to an elevation angle of 34 degrees while the Raysat tracks down to 20 degrees,  that's why the Raysat can receive well  much further north.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

Offline ktmossman

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2007, 07:21:13 AM »
Question: How well would one of these in-motion dishes work if they were completely recessed (ie. behind the front cap)?  I really do not want to put anything on the top, but I will need the in-motion satellite.
Kevin Mossman
2006 MCI J4500
Dallas, TX

luvrbus

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2007, 09:28:12 AM »
Jerry, is there any reason that the Raysat has to be mounted on rails i got mine from RV Protection Products last week with the hardware your price was better than mine i paid 2039.00.I will wait and see what kind of problems you have with the install if any before i start on mine so keep us posted.

Offline Jerry Liebler

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2007, 09:47:51 AM »
Luvrbus,
     No, there is no reason it has to be mounted on rails, in fact they have an optional set of mounting brackets for RV installations, they list for $149.   The optional mounting brackets simple attach to the roof skin with sheet metal screws, I didn't think that was very good.  Rails actually seem, to me, to be the simplest and ruggedest way to attach it.  For one reason the left rear mounting point is 2" further left than the left front, (they are not in a line parallel to the center).  The other 3 mounting points are centered 8" away from the centerline.  Also since I'm dealing with the very curved GM roof and wanted as close to zero clearance, as possible, under the center of the antenna, the manufacturer's brackets didn't appeal to me.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120   

luvrbus

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2007, 09:57:54 AM »
Jerry, i don't like the looks of brackets that why i asking as i will be putting mine on an Eagle and want to mount it on the cross braces and thought it may need the extra space under the unit for what ever reason    thanks

Offline JohnEd

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2007, 11:48:33 AM »
Jerry,

Phased array radar antennas are what the US Navy has on its newest ships.  They are flat panels that are affixed to four sides of the uppermost deck exterior bulkheads.  Nice to see this technology finding application in the civ market.  The Navy is well pleased with this hardware and I am suer you will be too.

On another note.  I have heard discussions about recessing a portion of the roof to allow the install of air conditioners in an ultra low profile.  I remember it was mentioned that a drain would have to be incorperated and that that was the extent of the mechanical consideration with that methode.  I am not going to be permitted to drop $2,000 into an antenna as wifey will not watch it on principle.  I think the price will be droping on the conventional antennas in a few years to where they will be within reach.  I think the "recessing" idea would be applicable to anything you mount up there that has a clearance consideration. 

One of the areas I have not seen exploited often is the ceiling space directly above the master bed in the center rear.  I once saw a cabnet that was a healthy 5 feet long by 3+feet wide and 18 or so inches tall affixed to the ceiling in that loc.  It did not interfere with getting in or out of bed or walking around it.  Cabnet doors ringed the thing and there was a lot of storage down each side and a really long compartment that ran lenght wise and was aligned with the center isle.  Skis, long guns, rods..whatever.  Any reason that you know of why this isn't being done?

Good luck with the install,

John
"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla

Offline Jerry Liebler

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2007, 12:50:36 PM »
John,
    In my case the reasons for not exploiting the area over the centered rear bed are:   I'm dealing with a GM bus which has a very great amount of curve to the roof.  So to maximise head room and sleeping area I opted for twin beds.  Since my bus has a lower roof over the driver's area I did consider mounting a more conventional dome'd  Satellite antenna up front but rejected the idea because I like the vista windows and thought the result would be on the ugly side.  Recessing  should work fine if structural issues and drainage are dealt with but putting any thing, even good electrical insulators, above the antenna will result in some signal degradation.
Luvrbus,
     How far apart are the roof ribs in your bus?  Since I have some, in the right area, that are on 36" centers I can make (it's about 1/2 done) a rack with rails centered 37" and anchor it securely to roof ribs.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

Offline ktmossman

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2007, 02:10:09 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something...  If the manufacturer can encase the dish in a dome without the dome creating interference, why could one not place the entire mechanism inside the fiberglass cap on a bus (either front or rear cap)?  Most conversions I have seen have some type of cabinetry over the driver and/or against the ceiling in the rear, so it could be totally out of site with no physical roof penetration at all.
Kevin Mossman
2006 MCI J4500
Dallas, TX

Offline Jerry Liebler

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2007, 03:26:03 PM »
KT,
   The problem with adding something over the dish is due to 'refraction'.  The speed of propagation of electromagnetic radiation through any material is the speed of light in that material.  Light travels through different materials at different speeds, it is fastest in a vacuum. If a ray, of electromagnetic radiation hits a surface,of a  material which is different than it has been traveling in, at any angle that's not perpendicular it's direction and speed are changed. While if it hit's the 'interface' perpendicularly only it's speed is changed.  Diffraction is why lenses work, they can bend parallel waves so they all land on a point, this is called focusing the parallel rays.  The antenna is trying to collect parallel rays but by putting something over it they aren't parallel anymore.  The radome around many dishes is carefully designed as another lens in the antenna's focusing plan.  But if the material added has propagation characteristics close to air, is thin relative to the wavelengths and is of good uniformity the results may be acceptable.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Jerry 407 1120

Offline JohnEd

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2007, 04:16:57 PM »
KT,

Its complicated.  The thickness of the fiberglass is a multiple of the wavelength of the RF you want to pass through it so the glass doesn't attenuate the signal.  The dome is no exception and to keep that "apparant" thickness constant the rf passes through the dome with the planes at right angles to each other.  Same thickness whichever way the antenns is pointed.  If you place it under a "sheet" the amt of glass the signal passes throuigh will be much larger at low angles of elevation that at high.

This may not be clear.  Sorry if it isn't.

John
"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla

Offline JohnEd

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Re: My Satellite antenna, It arrived, now I've gotta install it
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2007, 04:18:27 PM »
Jerry,

Better app of your situation now.  Your design seems great, anyway. 

Good luck,

John
"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla

 

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