Bus Shop

[Dallas]

Even before your post I had been giving a lot of thought to my bus barn/shop.  A really large expense, at least here is concrete.  The shop has to have a concrete floor at 20X20.  The car stalls need only have a 10X10 slab.  The bus would have a pit surrounded by a pad 20X20.  The rest of the floor would be highly compacted gravel.  So out of 2,000 sq ft I would need only 900 sq ft of concrete floor.  That would reduce the cost a lot around here.  What are your thoughts?  I am interested in your opinion.

John

John,
Concrete doesn't come in square feet. It's delivered in cubic feet.

It kind of sounds to me like you are being penny smart and pound foolish.

do the whole 2000 square feet in concrete... all but the floor for the bus done at 4" with a good substrate and bed. For the bus do it 12' X the total length at 6". Do the area of the pit at 8" with a 4" floor and lots of rebar and wire around the edges. Line the edge of the pit with 3" X 3/8" angle iron and weld a 3 1/2" piece of bar stock up 1" from the edge of the angle iron... It helps you to keep from losing things in the pit.... like a tire, wheel, bus, car, etc.

Don't skimp on your pit. If you do it can collapse and turn you into mulch or worm food.

Dallas

[makemineatwostroke]

John, concrete in Scottsdale AZ cost over $100.00 Cy my bus barn floor was $3.45 sf( labor,rebar,concrete and forms) for a 60x40 building. what you are talking about would help on the cost but I think it would be a bear to keep clean.And on the pit you can figure about $15.00 a sf for the walls and floor, if you can get it approved by the powers that be. Scottsdale would not approve one without $8500.00 worth of EPA equipment           

[JohnEd]

Dallas,

Your post was very informative and all of your advice sound...as usual.  I didn't know what the thickness for the bus part was and the 8" for the pit I will just take your word on.  How deep for the pit, while we are on that subject,and how wide?

Turnabout being "fair play".    Here in Orygun, and me thinks everywhere else , concrete is sold by the cubic "yard"....not cubic foot.  And, angle does not come in 3" X 3/8"...thats bar stock or flat stock.   Need another dimension such as 3" or 4".  But, I know exactly what you meant.   And I know you are smarter than that by miles and miles.  Still love Ya...really.

Thank you,

John

[skipn]

 I agree with Dallas on the pit info but the rest I don't know.

  1. "highly compact" of coarse but no matter it seems there will alway be a elevation diff between concrete
      and gravel.
  2. Having to get under the bus to work on something  in gravel leaves a frustration on using a mechanics creeper.
      I feel the oversized tire creepers don't work that great. Personal opinion
  3. If these two minor inconveniences become major you can always add concrete later.

   To me shops tend to be the collector of hidden treasures (BTDT)
    This weekend I was going through one of my barns to see what was being junked and
     what I would move.  found an old disassembled Kawasaki 900 I forgot I had.
 I'm sure you're better organized than I 
   
 Skip

[Dallas]

John,

Sorry you misunderstood,

Concrete does come in cubic feet, if you figure it that way. I was using the home owners friend.. "quikrete" in 80# bags.. for a 4" X 2000 square foot pad you would need 1121 bags, which are measured in cubic feet.

If you are using the local concrete delivery company, yes, you'll need to order by the yard. If you are going to order dry mix, or straight cement and mix it yourself, in a large mixer, which by the way will lower the cost, order it in dry bulk and have enough gravel and sand dropped by the truck load to do the job.

8" is a bit of overkill, but then I've never been known to do things halfway... what if the next owner brings in a D6-C Cat and gets too close to the edge? 6" will more than likely be enough, even in the Willamette Valley, where I did my share of mixing concrete and laying out substrate.

Angle iron, as I recall, does come the way I describe it.. 3" by 3/8" would infer each side of the angle would be 3" long and the thickness would be 3/8" thick.

If I were specifying sides with different lengths, then yes, I would need another length. That's just shorthand for the way I've always ordered steel.

Sorry if I wasn't more specific.

Dallas

[JohnEd]

MMATS,

Yours, and Dallas's is good advice.  I hadn't even considered the "dirt" factor.  Sweeping is not my favorite thing.

I thought I might save $2.5 K but that might (probably would) be being "penny wise and pound foolish", as my Brit Granny used to say and Dallas pointed out.   I think I am convinced, actually...thanks to the two of you.

I have a friend with a trucking company.  He has a 60 X 60 barn and a pit that is 5x40 foot for his trucks and trailers.  OSHA came in and made him install a railing.  He opted to fabricate and install one that dropped into the floor.  He does use it and raises it when the pit isn't occupied.  He only installed it because they explained how much the daily fine would be if he didn't and I think there was a property condemnation issue associated with non compliance.  Then he only started using it after he got TWO huge fines for NOT using it.  They thought it prudent to DROP BY and I think his overt attitude influenced their decision to sit on him a little harder than most.  No more injuries over the past 9 years.  


He cursed the day the founding fathers invented the word Federal Government but that wasn't new for him.  I asked what got them interested in him as he is well off the beaten path and he said the last work comp injury got their attention.  Seems he has had three people disabled from falling in that pit over the years and one was 100% and permanent with a broken back and residual paralysis.  The other two were laid up for extended periods.  He told me that all three were jerks and that any reasonably intelligent person would remember the pit was there.  I suspect there were more injuries that went unreported and I heard from the forman that "the boss even fell in the thing once".  He and I both pay taxes to support that "work comp" benefits program but I would drop dead before I would ever bring that up to him.  

For the past seven years Fed OSHA has taken budget cuts and hasn't been all that involved in inspections.  I think they mostly fund the states to do that under the state OSHA and heard a while back that that funding had been stopped to them.  Today I read that the MINE INSPECTIONS had produced a far smaller number of violations to the mine safety regs but the Gumint had not fined a single mine for a violation in seven years.  That must include the violations turned up in that last big "die off" of miners where the emergency breathing units didn't work and hadn't been inspected for years.  Inspections have been dramatically reduced, also.

I think requiring a private party to implement OSHA is farcical and out of hand.  The O in OSHA stands for "occupational" and private isn't that.  $8,500....crap!

Thanks for your solid advice, truly, both of you.

John

[JohnEd]

Dallas,

I pick up and shop for steel for that friend of mine that has the metal fabrication business.  His job sheets always have the second dimension for angle.  I asked him if he thought it was legit to just use one dimension, seeing as he always used two.  He told me to look at the bin labels at the wholesaler's and note that they only use one IF it is square.  I think he does it the way he does because he understands how easily I am confused   Any way, I stand corrected and I didn't missunderstand.

How long ago did you leave Orygun?  Sounds like the good old days.  I really like overkill and I think 8" of concrete for the pit area sounds good.

My granny used to say "Well you got another "think" coming, if you think thats true".  I'll invoke her words if you think I can still mix or finish concrete at 67 years young with a heart attack and diabetes going for me.  Quite the complement though...thanks.  I have mixed and finished more than my share as a homeowner and friend,however.

Hi to Bubbagal and thanks,

John

[busnut104]

My shop is 28 X 96 with a door on each end and a pit on the one side the ceiling is 13' 8" the door on one end is 13 x 13.6 and has a elect. opener. I have it lined with 2" white garage door panels with ceiling mounted hot air furnace. I have a 5.5 inch cement floor and the pit is poured cement works very nicely. I had to install a fan system that opens with a humidity switch to keep the humidity down.   

[mikelutestanski]

Hello   
    My shop is 30 X 75 X 16 high at the eaves. Accommodates two buses if necessary; but one works best.  .  The small enclosed shop at the back is about 12 X 14 and has big doorways.. That is the wood area. I do have steel racking down both sides to store stuff etc..  No pit here..   Too many  critters would like to share it.
     The cost of a steel building with a 4 inch concrete floor in Florida is about 40 K now..  it was cheaper 5 years ago when I put it up..  It is insulated 4 inch ceilings and 3 inch sidewalls.   Skylights and louvers in ceiling..   The main door is 12 X 14 almost centered in the front with a man door at each end  .    Works pretty well so far.
     FWIW.        Happy Bussin     mike 

[belfert]

     The cost of a steel building with a 4 inch concrete floor in Florida is about 40 K now..  it was cheaper 5 years ago when I put it up..  It is insulated 4 inch ceilings and 3 inch sidewalls.   Skylights and louvers in ceiling..   The main door is 12 X 14 almost centered in the front with a man door at each end  .    Works pretty well so far.

40k seems cheap compared to what I have been quoted around here in Minneapolis.  I priced out a 40x50 garage with 14 foot sidewalls stick built and it came in at $45k.  This does include fiber cement siding.

Is your building a pole barn or a true steel frame building for $40k?  I have not priced steel frame buildings yet.

[mikelutestanski]

hello     My building is a BSX from GA   steel frame, steel sides and roof    clearspan   3   25 by 30 bays strung together to make 30 by 75.
     16 foot at the eve with a 1/12 pitch making it 17'3 at the peak..  prices may be way out of date   I have not kept up an that . Mine went up in 2002.  needed a place here to store all my tools and stuff.. 
     Regards   Mike   Happy bussin..