yikes!!!

[chazwood]

So..... Did we all get a good chuckle in at the newbie chazwoods expense? Come on ....you know you were laughing...heck, half of you admitted you lived through it yourself.

Absolutely I was laughing. But it was not necessarily at you expense. It was more in fond memories of the fear I experienced the first time it happened to me, and the realization that I had no clue what the heck I was doing, and then the panic attack that came shortly after with the questions of, "What have I gotten myself into?"

craig

I'm with ya man. 

Say, are you the guy with the grumpy dog website, with the mc9 project? Well never mind. I just saw your address. Before I bought my bus I was reading your website every night till I was cross eyed. After being able to see deep into yours I felt like I knew the mc9 better than any other so I bought one. You do nice work. Very helpful to my own project. I'd be like.... OK....How did he get this seat rail out? Then I'd go to your site and look. Did that a bunch. Very helpful. Can't say enough. Thanks for your help. (so I don't mind if you laugh at me....but the rest of you........... .............. better tighten up........ )

[HighTechRedneck]

April 9-14!!??? How long do you think my luck will hold out? By then I either be a battle scared vet , or six feet under.

Yup.  Hence:

Another way to go would be to go over to Fred Hobe's in Madison, FL and spend some time with him.

Best yet, go see Fred right away, may save your life.  Then bring you and your bus to the Chattanooga rally for fun and the experience of a bunch of busnuts.

[Sammy]

Chaz, ask us ALOT of questions, ask the same ones until you're comfortable with the answers you get.
I will be glad to help you as best as I can, I'm sure other folks will also.
Welcome to the madness, asylum, hobby,money pit,etc.
Stop in the chat room in the evenings. Bunch of us are always there bs'ing and ready to help too.
Be careful, stay safe.
Sammy

[Hi yo silver]

OK, just for the sake of learning, I'll ask a dumb question.  Wouldn't the shutdown solenoid work from the power supplied by the alternator, even with the batteries disconnected?  Maybe I'm forgetting something.  (I realize you need the air pressure to actually shut down the engine, as discussed.)  I promise, I'll be the next one you guys will  be laughing at, as soon as I pick up my bus, which I hope to do next week.
Dennis

[DavidInWilmNC]

My MC-8 has a fuel shut of valve down near the fuel filters.  I'm assuming other buses do.  How quickly would this shut down an engine?  I would try it myself, but I don't want to have to deal with re-priming, etc.  For a non-emergency shut down, this might be easier / safer than reaching through that fan belt.  I also like the idea of having some way of shutting it down from the side engine doors like mentioned in a previous post.

I also experienced what you did when I first got my bus.  I wanted to show a friend how it sounded, so I fired it up.  My neighbors (the ones who were complaining about it) came out to their back yard during this time.  I decided to shut it down before they got too bitchy upset.  Guess what... it didn't shut down.  After it built enough air, it did, but by that time I was standing up trying to not look upset (cool, actually) when it suddenly shut down.  My friend asked me why did it shut down like that.  I said, oh, it has to have enough air pressure to shut down, and there's just enough do do that now.  See, I knew why it didn't shut down, but the panic of it not responding immediately kind of caused me to forget.  I now start it up with shop air.  One never knows when there's going to be a need to shut it down in a hurry.

I also had problems with it not starting one day.  It sounded odd when cranking and would blow out one big puff of black smoke.  I posted here and was told to check the emergency shut down, among other things.  No need, I thought, as I had never even played with that switch.  After a few days of dinking around with it, I decided to see what that little lever on top was that looked out of place.  Guess what... it was the emergency shut down flap lever.  I reset it and, bingo, it fired right up!  It smoked like hell for a while, but all was good.  The point is that most of these 'problems' have very simple solutions, ultimately.  Of course, I was thinking about having a bad blower, blown engine, etc.  Get, read, and learn the manuals.  It'll all make more sense and make things less stressful.

David

[Len Silva]

I don't think it's that big of a deal, but if anyone does, then how about installing a small (1 gal or so) air tank, fed through a check valve, and supplying only the shut down solenoid.  It would be much easier to keep it leak free than the whole bus.

FWIW,
Len

[chazwood]

Hello friends.....and the rest of you that were laughing at me....

I went out today and tried the whole scenario over again,(without turning off the battery and without the rising panic ) I left the bathroom connection leaking, and after running it on fast idle for a bit, flipped the kill switch. It took a long time to decide to die. I then started back up....plugged the hose....hit the kill and it died instantly. So what I gathered from this little experiment was, if the air pressure is high enough to fast idle (was not, the other day) It will still kill with an air leak, but it hesitates for a while making you think it won't die. Don't know about the battery angle cuz' I left it on. However, and furthermore, having learned the kill-it-with-a-stick-trick, I'm now comfortable that I have the Beast well in hand. (until a few minuets from now, of course.)



Now, wasnt that fun?

[gus]

Stan,

My understanding is that the elect/air valve is normally closed and iis activated to open when the master switch is turned off and, if there is air pressure, the engine will stop.

Once air pressure bleeds off the fuel is again turned on and stays on until air press again builds up. So, after the bus sits a few days the fuel is always on.

My theory, which I've never tried but will, is that the engine will start with the master turned off if there is no air pressure. The reason I think this is that, from experience, I know it won't shut off with no air pressure.

I also know (don't ask me how!) that if the rear shutdown switch is accidentally turned off the engine will start and run fine for a few minutes then die once air pressure builds up!

[belfert]

One good thing about my Series 60 is no air needed to shutdown.  Of course, that expensive DDEC can cause serious pain if it dies.

[Lin]

Gus,
     The engine will start with the master switch off, or at least mine will.  I can start it from the back without turning the switch on.  It will probably shut down when it gets enough air though.

[Stan]

Gus: You are wrong about the solenoid shut down valve. It is a normally open valve. Since the shut down sequence is dependent on air pressure being available, you can disregard anything that happens when there is no air pressure.

A diesel engine will start without air pressure, without batteries and regardless of switch positions if it is cranked, even by turning the crankshaft with a wrench. There are published warnings on how to prevent an engine starting if you have to turn the crankshaft, such as when setting valves.

If the governor is adjusted properly, it will be sitting in the idle position when the engine is stopped unless some mechanical force is holding it in the stopped position. On buses that use the electric/air shutdown, this force is the air coming through the normally open valve and pushing the piston out of the shutdown cylinder mounted on top of the governor. No air pressure, the engine will run!!

To clear up any confusion from other posts, there are two separate components in this system. There is an electrically operated solenoid valve remotely mounted and there is an air cylinder mounted on top of the governor.

[NewbeeMC9]

I can laff with you too

Most of us learn about that solenoid when the rear switch is in in the wrong position and the bus just shut's down unexpectedley,  a diffrent panic.  Luckily i had read about it hear so after calming down figured it out.  But it still doesn't ring as loudly as when it happens to you

[dparker]

Chaz,

I am not aware of the location in Alabama were slapout is ... ?  I live in a little town right across the state line in gerogia -- very close to fort payne, Alabama ... i have 13 CDL hazemat tanker endorsed truck drivers and am a cdl holder as well .. i am converting a mc7, very similar to your coach just older -- if you can give me a location that is a little more familiar perhaps we could get together and i could give what little i know about air brakes and some basics -- happy to help if you want it

by the way, i must admit that i did smile a little -- but only because i had been there -- what made it really funny was that you were willing to admit -

i bet there are a bunch of 12vdc devices burned up when all these nuts attempted to cross convert and intergrate 12volt devices with relays and the 24 vdc coach ... the difference is they come on line and mention how they did this and that but failed to mention that leason came at the price of letting the smoke out of some components -- as you know smoke runs everything on your bus -- you let it and it quits -- so far i have let the smoke out of my 24 vdc voltage regulator --- 3 led 12 volts marking lights (they do not like 24 vdc for very long) ... one trace inverter -- forgot to unhook that "temp" connection.... fuel pump on genset -- forgot that that hot wire was from the coach and not the 12 vdc system -- just try not to let all that smoke out of the 2 stroke detroit --

by the way if you do not think you are getting enough attention on this board just ask everyone what kind of oil to put in your bus ... lol

daivd

[chazwood]

I've always said......what good is a story , if you can't tell it? 

Deatsville is official , "Slapout" to the locals.

[JohnEd]

The Chaz,

Whenever I see your name here I go pop some popcorn( canned corn seems to take forever), open a pepsi, get comfortable and prepare to be entertained.  You never disapoint!  Thanks!  I will never forget "Oh, Look....a crank case oil drain plug".  This is Comedy Central grade stuff, man.

John