Fuel costs

[lostagain]

Well, as a individual or as a society, the only thing we can do is reduce our fuel consumption. Drive the smallest car that will get us around, start using alternative fuels, etc, etc. The fact is though, that people will keep driving their big cars untill the price of fuel goes a lot higher than it is now. Us bus-nuts will keep driving our busses untill we can't afford the fuel anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think we can do much else. That's about all the influence we small people can swing. As a retailer of the stuff, I'm in the thick of it every day, but feel as powerless as anyone else about the price.

I don't think that Big Oil should be allowed to retail the fuel in gas stations. It gives them too much control on the street over the price. Let them extract it and/or import it and refine it, but let independents buy it at the rack for retail. The playing field would then be level. This I feel would greatly diminish the price gouging, and the price wars that the corporate gas stations can afford, that are so tough on the little independents. Prices would be a lot more stable and fair if only independents bought the wholesale fuel at the rack. This is a good thing our governments (Canadian and American) could do to help us consumers.

As has been said earlier, it is driven by a global market system, and by oil companies that are bigger than most small countries.

My thoughts,

JC

[luvrbus]

This in maybe the only 4 pg. + thread that has Not ended up in a flameing war..."YET" and I hope it wont.

Very good discussions here, keep it up!
Nick-


[/quote]


No flames yet Nick just a little smoke

[skipn]

   A couple of probably non needed points.....

    But for the grace of God anyone can become poor.  Societies ills and downfalls are all of our
 responsibility. Please do not shun the poor or the oil companies for we all will be judged
 in the end.

  Each does the best as the circumstances allow. Granted it can be a tough world out there
 but it really doesn't matter as long as I keep focused on what matters.

   Just a silly almost old fools prattle. and I would be more worried about the Euro being the traded monetary
 system for oil than just the price

Skip

[NJT5047]

So an 84 year old woman with health problems getting $604/month is way below the poverty line as a matter of choice?  What choice was that?  Retiring when her health no longer supported working?

A hard working man develops a health problem and can no longer work.  Social Security decides that they will give him $1,034 per month (near poverty level) to live on and severely limits what he is allowed to make extra when he can.  What choice was that?

A man's long time business fails due to a combination of economic and life circumstances taking his home, good car and credit rating with it, plus still owes a debt to the IRS.  He can't even get a "good" job because credit reports are now used as the universal measure of a person.  So he makes $270 per week before taxes (near poverty level).  What choice was that?

These are not hypothetical situations.  I personally know each of these people.  They didn't choose poverty.  They aren't lazy.  They aren't career welfare recipients.  They don't want handouts.  They are good people.  They were productive citizens doing it "right" when circumstances happened.

Then I read about people at the top of big oil directing the rabid greed of the oil industry making far more money per hour than these people get all year and it makes my blood boil.

Do not wish to seem argumentative, but exactly what would you do to relieve the above examples of financial pain?  And who's money would you use to do it?  
Unfortunately, no matter how you shake it up, it isn't "greed" that motivates the management of big oil.  Or any other super successful effort...it's smart people being focused in ways that the average person doesn't appreciate.  If you removed thei rich guys wealth, distributed it to all us poor folk, within a short time, they would have their wealth back in their banks.  
I tend more to agree with NCBob.  The largest number of poor never gave retirement any thought, or considered saving a dime.  They made one bad choice after another.  They aren't to be 'blamed' for their situation, but who should be responsible..and, who should pay?  
Regarding the "greedy" oil company magnates, I don't recall anyone wanting to bail them out when gasoline fell to a buck a gallon 4 years ago.   They were losing their butts...drillers..everyone.  Most were forced out of business.  
Oil companies are not going to build refineries while the American government is attempting to put them at a market disadvantage.  Our foolish government is subsidizing ethanol producers, while raising taxes on oil companies.  The greens (Democrats) prevent drilling for oil in the US.  
The oil managers are planning for their retirement.  They ain't stupid.  
Considering the price of a barrel of crude, the federal fuel blend requirements, and federal and state taxes, gasoline is a bargin...relatively speaking.   Don't look at what the oil companies profit may be, look at the percentages of profit over a 5 or 10 year period.   And compare that number to what banks,  construction, and investment companies earn.      
The global-warming charade has created an environment that will surely lead to our third-world status.
I seem to be the opposition on this debate, but since we get a rather large percentage of our oil from the mideast, and the OPEC cartel sets the prices for oil, and Iraq invaded Kuwait, made war on Iran, and planned to invade Saudi Arabia, we probably have a rationale to be in the Middle East.  And as long as we are dependent on OPEC for survival, we probably should stay there.  
If you want to see Americans dying in the streets, cut the fuel supply off.  This is the reason I think our federal government apparatchnik are fools.  They understand this conundrum, pay lip service to it, and then do nothing...other than work on getting voted back into office.  It isn't greed that drives them, its power.
And the Democrats require the support of the greens (Sierra Club, etc) to remain in office.   So the Dems end up quashing any new drilling in Alaska, the continental shelf, Gulf of Mexico and anywhere in the interior of the US.  Now they are adding that any fuel that generates more greenhouse gases during manufacture than OPEC petroleum cannot be imported.  AND,  the Dems (Greens) are totally against nuclear energy.   Go figure.
But hey, I got an electric car, and when push really comes to pull, I got a horse too.  And it looks as though I may need the horse!   The greens are gonna love horse emissions!
When does the revolt begin!  Just joking.  I'm old enough to retire..not about to leave the great Teat in the sky now!  
Alas, I rant.  Must go find medication......it's in a can...pop the top.   JR

  

  

[PP]

FWIW  Everyone knows there is a finite amount of Dino in the ground. What then? On the flipside, there is an almost infinite amount of solar energy in the sky. So I ask of all the smart folks on this forum, does anyone have blueprints for converting a DD to solar?

[jackhartjr]

Funny Nick...I thought my last post would be deleted in a hurry...and me banished to the hitherlands...or forced to drive a short schoolie till I paid my pitance!
Does my blood boil about this subject...you bet.  Me and Kyle bought $600.00 in diesel fuel last week.  Two weeks ago the same fuel would have cost $518.00, a year ago about $408.00, the year before that about $300.00.  (In 1879 when I started driving trucks about $90.00.)  If it goes to where they are saying about $700.00 by summer!
I can think of nothing else that has rison like this.  (Diamonds...however I think we all know that Debeers props demand up to sell the crap.  I can talk about it...I just got married last year!)
And for all of those that say if we can't afford the fuel....we should have the bus...that's not the point.  The point is that we are being ripped off big!
I liked Cody's post.  I am reminded of Emron, BellSouth, Worldcom or whatever it was and others...they stole millions of dollars of our, (Your mom, dad, grandparents, neighbors, and maybe even yours) pensions...because of unchecked greed.  Actually some of it was checked, some of the accounting firms were saying those companies were the best thing since sliced bread...and they were not following normal and legal business practices!
Well is what Exxon, Gulf, Mobil, Hess, Flying J, etc. doing not the same thing.  Think morals here folks.  I know some will say that what they are doing is legal.  To them I will say that Blackbeard and his ilk called pirates were plying their trade legally too...but could it be defended morally?
Jack

[NJT5047]

  A couple of probably non needed points.....

    But for the grace of God anyone can become poor.  Societies ills and downfalls are all of our
 responsibility. Please do not shun the poor or the oil companies for we all will be judged
 in the end.

  Each does the best as the circumstances allow. Granted it can be a tough world out there
 but it really doesn't matter as long as I keep focused on what matters.

   Just a silly almost old fools prattle. and I would be more worried about the Euro being the traded monetary
 system for oil than just the price

Skip

I agree Skip.  The poor are our problem...not the federal government's problem.   I would make a much better choice as to who received handouts.   I'll guarantee healthy working age males wouldn't.  
Fear the Euro not.  It's going to come down...like a rock.  Although you point out another possible dent to US prestige...the possibility that some other currency may become the global market's choice.   
Reckon how much AirBus is going to lose doing business with the Pentagon selling the KC-45 (A-330) tankers?  Billions.  Bet that deal was struck prior to the dollar deval.  Big problem for the EU.
We're paying for oil with devalued dollars which means we're importing oil for about $70. a barrel.     Welcome to the problems of third world countries.
JR 

[PP]

First I'm humiliated by being reduced to living in my bus, and now I learn after all these years that people were laughing behind my back when I drove my 28' schoolie through town!  >:(This thread is starting to get my blood boiling, PP

[skipn]

 Will,  You have a beautiful bus I wouldn't consider it "reduced to" plus you have more writing talents
 than I could ever hope to have.

 Amarica's dollar has been the system for global trading for years. Because of several reason way to
 long to post. The thing that happens is that by being the world monetary system for trading there
 was a certain amount of leverage that was placed on foriegn countries to do  what we wanted. The
 snake pit is worried spitless that if the world goes to the Euro (and yes it will take a down turn but
 will it be as much as us remains to be seen) that America will(has) lose its leverage over the Opec
 consortium.  (bullets don't sway a country food and money does though) We have used food and money
 as our major sway over every other country but guess what, we are losing that capability thus the Opec
 countries can now set what ever they want and get the money. ergo high bucks for feul

  A ramble I'm sure but not in left field  (may right field) 

 Skip

[jackhartjr]

PremiumPrevost, 28 feet aint a 'short' schoolie! LOL
Jack

[PP]

Thanks Skip

[NJT5047]

First I'm humiliated by being reduced to living in my bus, and now I learn after all these years that people were laughing behind my back when I drove my 28' schoolie through town!  >:(This thread is starting to get my blood boiling, PP

PP, don't be sad. If I had a Premium Prevost I'd be very happy!  If I had any old nice H3-45, or a 4 stroke LeMirage XL45, I'd be happy.  F'ing ecstatic!  
I identify with your humiliation...Hell, people laugh at my horse. Major bummer.  At least it's a plan?  
Don't let this OT stuff get to ya!  It's a product of boredom.  
JR

[Hartley]

First I'm humiliated by being reduced to living in my bus, and now I learn after all these years that people were laughing behind my back when I drove my 28' schoolie through town!  >:(This thread is starting to get my blood boiling, PP

Sir, You are not alone in living in your bus. Did that for 6 years, got several more buses
and then my MC9, moved into a house, sold the house due to way too many taxes.
Escaped from Florida... Too broke to build a house now but I own my property..
And all at 200% below poverty level... My new home consists of a bus, shipping container some storage trailers and a barn and 17 acres of paid for land...

I figure I have room for another 200 buses here...Just hanging on....

Dave....

[Lin]

Just to help us go for the record here.  Did you know that part of Walmart's employee orientation includes information on applying for welfare and medicare since they pay so low that their employees can qualify?  These people are known as the working poor.  The "low prices" are therefore subsidized by tax money.    Walmart proudly claims that most of its employees are "full time".  They define "full time" as 28 hours/week.  The founder, Sam Walton, may have been a different sort of a person than his heirs, but their business model has surpassed mere greed and reached into the realm of evil.  See if you can find the documentary "The High Cost of Low Prices" and prepare to be scandalized.

What's this got to do with the price of fuel?  Just that it is driven by the same severe character flaws.  I will note that I have known many regular people that express extremely harsh views regarding the poor and marginalized in our society.  The interesting phenomenon though is that most of these people would never personally treat anyone unkindly  They would willingly help others in need and save their seemingly cold-hearted opinions for the hypothetical.  I would venture to guess that most of the contributors to this board are truly compassionate and charitable in that, no matter what they say, they would act with humanity.  It is ultimately the motivation and action that counts.  I have also known people that, though they have high-minded opinions, would step right over you if fell in front of them on the street.

[jackhartjr]

GREAT post Lin!
Jack
PS...what was that saying..."Your charactor is what you are...when you are alone!"