A pirate attempted to stop my bus in an old caddy

[junkman42]

I am constantly reminded by My large extended family that We americans are a brutish  lot.  I am sure that the Brits are also convinced that spoons make people fat and pencils are the reason that I can not spill-sppel -sppel-spell.  One of My cousins also constantly bad mouths George Bush and in all fairness also had a big dislike of Tony Blair.  I have decided that the one thing that makes people all over the world dislike americans so much is simply that they are jealous.  Give Me liberty or give Me death.  I regret that I have only one life to give for My country, I think that was what an american told a british officer when given the chance to sell out His country.  I can not fathom that someone would would give up their right of self defence.  Beat Your swords into plowshares if You like but do not cry when You have to get up early to plow someone elses fields at the tip of a sword..   Good night all,  John Lacey

[Blacksheep]

All I would like to say is you guys have WAY too much time on your hands to type post like these over and over.
Before you know it, you'll be writing poems too!
Give it a break and get this board BACK to buses instead of guns! If you own them, use them! If you don't, then worry about the consequences then!
Now did I ever tell the story about the guy in an Eagle that just HAD to get in front of me on the interstate? He tried and tried! He just couldn't muster enough steam!
B S

[m-werx]

Hi Jeremy not sure what years you grew up in but i had a 12 gauge at 8years old, had to go to the post office to get a license, then the good folk decided to to make it harder & left it up to the local bobby to see if i was fit to own a gun, not good, after a fight i got mine,i know lots off friends that did not, used to have a gun under the seat in the car just in case, got fed up with the do gooders runing my life moved to USA got consealed permit & going to keep it, i look on bbc news daily & all i see is stabbings & shootings. still you have lots off good busses over there, ps i still have no time for the queen, Darren.

[Kristinsgrandpa]

Something aprapo, hot off the press today:

Subject: FW: Shooting in Butte, Montana



This story has a great ending and should be aired on the national media,
but they will not.

Shooting in Butte, Montana

Shotgun Pre-teen vs. Illegal Alien Home Invaders:
Butte, Montana November 5, 2007

Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home. It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine. Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun. Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals. When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest. Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants......and she wins, she is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control !

Thought for the day:

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'


Detective Leo Escandon Jr.
GS-6, Directorate of Emergency Services,
Police Operations
Civil Liaison AWOL Apprehension Section


Ed

[jok]

Fake story still circulating on Internet
By John Grant Emeigh of The Montana Standard - 12/13/2007

A dramatic story about a shooting that supposedly happened in Butte last year is nothing more than an urban myth.

The bogus story has been circulating for the past year on Internet blogs and Web sites concerning a girl shooting two men who broke into her Butte home in November 2006.

According to the fabricated story, an 11-year-old Butte girl shot two “illegal aliens” with a shotgun after they broke into her home. The shooting supposedly took place on Nov. 5, 2006, according to Internet posts.

When asked about the authenticity of the events described in this story, Butte-Silver Bow Sheriff John Walsh told The Montana Standard in an earlier interview that his office never investigated such an incident.

“This never happened,” Walsh said.

The story claims the girl shot and killed the two intruders while she was home alone. The story doesn’t provide a street address or attribute the information to any official sources.
Walsh brushed off the story of an urban myth.

“It’s amazing how these things get around,” he said.

Numerous people from all over the United States have contacted The Montana Standard in the past year via e-mail or phone to verify if the story was true. The story is often given the headline “Home Invasion Gone Wrong.” A recent search for this story on the Internet search engine Google.com returned with more than 400 hits.

The story has been printed as fact on some anti-gun control and anti-immigration Web sites. The phony story identifies the 11-year-old girl as Patricia Harrington, who shoots and kills the two “illegal aliens” identified as Ralphel Resindez and Enrico Garza.

Reporter John Grant Emeigh may be reached at john.emeigh@lee.net.

[Sojourner]

Amen to the rights to bear arm! Wherever we are home or bus home....to deter enemy.

Otherwise we are like other countries that no have protection control of their own family.

About school children carrying gun to school should be the parent responsible for their children action. It not children faults when parent don't teach them about real danger and teach them not to watch TV story of fake shooting and blood scene to cause children to think unrealistic or wrong doing. Parents are to pay for their under age children crime, Period.
Otherwise, there would be no children causing major crime.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry

[Jeremy]

I was wondering.  Do you think that the presence of a monarchy, even the vestiges of one, implies the tendency of a population to be subjugated?  Why would a modern country give honor in any way to the offspring of what amounts to a criminal dynasty? Shouldn't these parasites be forced to return their ill gotten wealth and told to go out and work?  The concept of royalty and nobility is certainly merely the product of brutish force.  Why would the people of England continue to treat Lizzy Windsor as if she were even a particularly decent person, forget about something special?
 

I personally agree that the monarchy is a complete anachronism today, and probably has been for the last century or so. I'm still in a minority thinking that, and even I don't feel particularly subjugated by Lizzy Windsor because I cannot think of any effect she has over my life, except perhaps consuming a few of my tax dollars. I have no doubt that Britain will lose it's monarchy at some point, possibly within my own lifetime. Our Royal family are also head of state of Australia of course, as well as  several other countries. Australia has for many years been having periodic national surveys to measure the public's attitude towards the Queen, and very recently the Aussie government 'unofficially' announced that they were going to start the process towards becoming a republic.

By the way, another prediction of mine is that the sport of professional boxing will be banned within the foreseeable future. No doubt that will provoke a reaction too.

Lots of well-argued replies overnight. Good stuff

Jeremy

[Don4107]

So Jeremy, what "civilized" action would you recommend to Greg and his passengers if he had been unarmed and the guy in the caddy had been successful in stopping him?

I think I know what I would do.  Even if I was unarmed, I would still have the moron out gunned.  A 15 ton slow moving easily aimed projectile might be more effective that a 125 grain fast moving one that requires a certain amount of dexterity to administer properly in a high pressure situation.  Probably less legal ramifications too.  There, is that more civilized?


Don 4107

Now with a new use for a bus, cleaning up the gene pool. 

[lyndon]

Fascinating topic, from a Canadian perspective. Growing up, I never gave guns much thought. Hunters had them, farmers had them. And law enforcement folks, of course, but even our border guards are only now starting to be trained and become armed (go figure). I had occasion to target shoot on vacation a time or two, but that was the extent of my exposure to firearms. Most urban Canadians from my generation would have a similar experience, I suspect.

Gun control has been a fact of life in Canada for as long as I remember. Recent attempts (by a previous government) to register all long guns have not gone well, but hand guns, automatic and assault-type weapons are restricted to the point of being nearly impossible for a private citizen to legally own. The exceptions are collectors and hobby shooters, who must comply with strict regulations in the storage and transport of their weapons. Concealed carry, outside of law enforcement, is never legal.

But times are changing and now we are seeing a scary increase in gun violence on the streets of our larger cities. Most of the time, ethnic or drug gangsters are shooting at each other (which would be ok with me if they weren't doing the shooting in busy streets and parking lots; innocent bystanders are getting hit, too). Where I once thought nothing of walking downtown streets at night, it doesn't seem too smart these days.

So we have a situation where law abiding citizens are unarmed and the bad guys have all the guns. Making it against the law to posses a hand gun does not seem to impress the criminals; they have not been registering them for some reason. (Could it be because either their guns are stolen or smuggled?)

Anyway, in my early years of trucking some 30 years ago, I spent some time running into the US. Many American truckers thought we Canucks were nuts running unarmed (not counting the tire bat, of course) and that seemed like a strange attitude to me. Not that we had a choice, of course. An armed alien is not generally something you should welcome into your country. (The exception would be an armed alien with a valid hunting license from at least one US state, but the weapon would have to be legal at home, too, and it might be hard to convince the border folks you're going hunting with your truck and a load of beef). A close encounter at 3 a.m. at a rest stop just north of Detroit convinced me these American truckers just might know what they're talking about.

More recently, my US visits have been as a tourist and I look forward to exploring every state when we can. The bus is a big part of that plan, of course, but safety is something that has to be planned for. We have a 110 lb mutt, part Shepard, part malamute, part wolf for all I know. That seems like a good start. (Just don't tell the bad guys he's part wussy, too, but he does know how to bark at strangers!) Bear spray is always close at hand, as we regularly camp in and around the Canadian Rockies. (Mace is a restricted weapon in Canada, so I assume only criminals have it).

Never cared to hunt, but I could take the safety course, get the provincial gun permit and hunting license, a state hunting permit for birds or something, and be nice and legal. Pardon the pun, is that overkill?

Sorry for the long post, but this is a topic I've given a lot of thought to. As I said, your thoughts and opinions have been fascinating -- and from my view, very much on topic.

BTW, I kinda like the Queen. Not too sure about the man in waiting, though. (Now that might be off topic.)

Don

[muddog16]

I have no reason not to believe this story as told to us, and this is a bus related topic, bad things happen "around the world", not just here! 

Jeremy, my acestors left civilized Europe 200 years ago, to pursue what they thought would be a better life!  We are a young Democratic Republic!  Our Founding Fathers, farmers, businessmen, clergy, were for their time ahead of many European cultures when it came to Social Justice, Freedom and the Rights of Men, with the history of the European environment in those days government didn't have a sterling record for the treatment of the common man! 

Our 2nd Amendment is a hot topic in this country and will be for many years to come.  I don't forsee anytime in the near future that it will change!

To use backhanded insults to make your points is unwarranted and sad!  To say that your statement is academic is puzzeling to me, do you mean we wouldn't or couldn't understand your methodology in explaining yourself or your stance?

When I say insults, I'm referring to several of your comments: "Given the volume of replies and the obvious passion expressed I suspect there may be something rather Freudian about the attitude of middle-aged men to the loss of their guns!"

or this:  "Ok, being serious again, I do believe that in time laws will be passed to drastically reduce gun ownership in America, and I also believe that even the most fanatic NRA member knows deep down that it is the right thing to do."

I won't even mention the Bush bashing because it seems to be the "in" thing to do these days, if you wish to drop to that level!

Jeremy your country and its government is your business not mine!  There are many great things the English have given this world and I'm glad to have you as friends!

I guess what I'm trying to say is this!       Europe made it's mistakes for 1400 years, let us make ours we have much to learn and are not perfect.  Our laws are just that "Ours"!
 

[Lin]

Gun control is much more complex than many think.  Those that wish to outlaw guns certainly have good intentions.  Whenever there is a gun crime, the logic says, "if there were no guns, this wouldn't have happened."  I was raised as a city boy.  We didn't hunt and, sorry to annoy anyone, I do not respect it as a sport.  I do not think that cultivating the pleasure of killing is a great thing,  nor am I comfortable with the thought that it is okay to cause pain, suffering and death for one's own benefit.  As you may guess then, I am a vegetarian.  If there is an issue of survival, that may change the perspective.  I am not against all gun control.  I do not think that minors should have access to guns outside of adult supervision.  I do not think felons should be allowed to have guns.  I do not think that those with potentially dangerous mental disorders should be allowed to have guns.  I do not believe that citizens generally need to carry assault weapons (but I can certainly understand the concept that they would be fun to try).  I suppose that if there were no guns in the country, I would not be for introducing them.  Needless to say, there are a lot of guns around.  It is just naive to think that banning all gun ownership will seriously reduce crime since, as has been said many times, criminals by definition do not obey laws.  If one wanted, they could track all of the gun control laws and see if they have made any noticeable change in crime statistics.  I would guess that they have not.  So for the time being, until people become more civilized (you may remember  Gandhi's answer when he was asked what he thought about Western Civilization, "I think it would be a good idea.") reasonable gun ownership is only prudent and fair. 

[ktmossman]

Thank you, Pat.  What is with this condescending notion that gun control = more civilized or abolishing the death penalty = more civilized, etc.?  The fact that we haven't decided yet to publicly roll over and become the willing victims of predators is somehow uncivilized?!?

As far as the "academic" remark goes...  (Let me preface this by saying that my first career was as a teach and school principal in Pre-K-12 schooling.)  We have a saying in this country regarding academia and it holds largely true (and to a greater degree the farther into "academia" one goes): "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach."  The reason that alot of things remain "academic" is because that, when applied in the real world, they fail miserably.  Gun control laws are a great example.  They sound really great in the halls of academic theory, but put into practice in the real world (where there are real predators who don't care what the law says), all they do is create easy victims.

I personally believe that our gun laws in the US are FAR too restrictive.  If one carries the logic that the 2nd Amendment confirms my right to defend myself just a bit further, I should be able to have whatever weapon is necessary to do so.  So if a criminal is able to acquire a fully automatic weapon, why should I be legally held to a position of disadvantage in defending myself?  And our Founding Fathers view was ever more "extreme."  Their view of a citizen's right to arms was rooted in their belief that, should the govt. become non-responsive to the people, the citizens should have the means to overthrow the govt. and start over.

And one other point that I can't let slide...  The notion that our Founding Fathers built this form of govt. on "lessons learned from the monarchy" is only true to the extent that the viewed the monarchy and Parlimentary systems as an abhorrent example of what NOT to do.  If there was any other govt. at the time which they used as a model, it would have been France.  But even that theory does not hold much water because the FF were resoundingly opposed to democracy as a form of govt.  In fact, calling someone a "democrat" at the time was a serious insult, often resulting in a dueling challenge.

I would challenge anyone to find and read original writings (both instructional such as "the Federalist Papers" or personal such as journals) by the Founding Fathers.  I guarantee that it would be an eye-opening experience.  There was indeed a common source document that they drew from to craft our Constitution (in fact, early drafts were footnoted with references to this document).  During the Constitutional Convention, when they would reach an impasse in the debate over a given point, they would actually adjourn to study this document for insight.  It was common for over a hundred years that, when a Congressman proposed a new law, they would be challenged on the floor to provide support for that law from this document.  The same source was also documented as foundation for Supreme Court decisions for over 150 years of our history.

[cody]

My background is in law enforcement, I spent 25 years working from the ground up, from a role on the road to the position of a supervisor in maximum security prisons, when I retired I had 115 officers, 14 front line supervisors and over 500 segregation prisoners under my oversight, my education includes a degree in criminal justice and a degree in business administration, during my career with the state, I also taught classes in criminal justice at 2 local community colleges, I was also an instructor for the Michigan Department of Corrections at the training academy in Lansing, I also attended and completed the FBI academy satallite institute in Lansing and recieved federal certification, I've lectured on the 'use of force' policy at several state univercities in their criminal justice programs here in Michigan, based on that I can attest to the idea that gun control and the idea that crime can be controled using legislative procedures just does not work.  The criminal element doesn't abide by the legislative mandates that are passed down to us, in actual application the opposite generally holds true, one shining example of the failure of gun control is Washington DC itself, it strictly prohibits and  controls the guns within it's jurisdiction, yet has one of the highest crime rates in the country.  I'm not advocating a return to the wild west where everyone has a gun strapped to their side but somewhere in the middle there has to be the happy medium where the people can own and properly use and carry as provided for in our constitution, I don't see England as a shining example of a gun control success story or any other country either, the key to long term crime control is to educate people, provide opportunity to earn a living wage, and bring back the American Dream of being able to improve your standard of living thru legal means.  The principles that this country was founded on and the ideas that were behind it still are firmly in place, just somewhat muddied by our social concepts and interactions with each other.  Thats my soap box and only my opinion.

[ktmossman]

"The Wild West" -- another myth.  The per capita crime rate, the per capita firearms incident rate, the per capita death by firearm rate (excluding military action and native American conflicts) were lower than "modern society" (as best the researchers can determine.)  In fact, if you exclude two or three brief (less that 2 year) periods in a couple specific locals (Tombstone, etc.) the "Wild West" was a very safe place to live as far as crimes and firearms go.

Another thought on the subject... I have been a student of various martial arts for a good number of years.  From everyone that I have talked to in that environment (and my own personal experience), the presence of a firearm actually prevents conflicts from escalating to the point of violent action. 

If I am confronted by a predator and I tell him that, should he continue this course of action, I am going to turn him into a human pretzel with the accompanying pain/bodily injury, he may or may not believe that I possess the ability and the willingness to do so.  He is far more likely to test the theory, especially if he has a weapon of his own, be that a firearm, knife, crowbar, etc. 

However, if, upon initial confrontation, he is looking down the barrel of a large caliber firearm, he is immediately convinced that I possess the ability and willingness to do him great bodily harm and far more likely to decide that he is not interested in pursuing this course of activity.

[Greg Roberts]

Is it just me, or is this story a little hard to take seriously??  I hate to doubt anybody, and I know about modern-day piracy on the high seas involving ships but, on the highway?  This is the first I've heard of anything like this.  Any of the "old stand-by regulars" care to comment here?

Dennis

Sparta, as it turns out, is a very small dark, and rough town that appears to not have police on patrol at night (not sure about the daytime). You can certainly stick your head in the sand and not believe this very real and scary event and you may be just fine because odds are in your favor. But I strongly discourage all of you to avoid going through Sparta Georgia in the late dark hours of the night. I strongly recommend that all of you think and then re-think your travel plans so that your passage through any of these more rural areas is during daylight hours or not at all. I will never drive through Sparta again regardless of the time of day because the best thing all of us can do is be smart and avoid these sorts of conflicts. This is a lesson I have learned and I simply wanted to pass it along to all of you for your benefit (at least to those of you who are wise and wiley enough to accept the reality).