Update from Doug with the PD4106

[Barn Owl]

NIMCO has take out 8V71s for $2750. I have purchased parts from them and I can personally vouch that they are a great to deal with.

Link: NIMCO

[RJ]

All -

I talked to Doug for awhile tonite, and his spirits are rising!! 

While talking, we found five FMCA members in El Paso with buses - one MCI, four Prevost.  Doug was going to try and contact them to see if any might have room to park his coach while it gets repaired, because the storage lot won't allow that kind of activity (where have we all heard THAT before, eh?)

The kids, btw, thought it was a great adventure!!

Now, a couple of tidbits:

The bus doesn't overheat when puttering around town, only on the highway.

The first leg of their journey, while towing a trailer, was, for the most part, uneventful - no overheating.

When checking the oil, there appeared to be no water in it - it was typical DD two-stroke black.

That little bit of info suggests to me that the engine itself may be ok, it's just a cooling issue.

The saga continues!

 

[John316]

RJ, I agree with you. Good thing that Doug's spirits are rising. Let us know what those fellers with coaches in El Paso say about a place to park and work on the bus at the same time.

Probably the problems aren't as huge as we/Doug thinks. The conversion looks nice. I think that there are just some mechanical issues, that can be fixed.

ALL- I recommended to Doug to getting a used RV trailer. He said that they have a F350 Superduty, so towing shouldn't be a problem. It seems to me like, they could pack into that trailer, and then travel, and save until they have enough to go get the bus/pay for repairs. I have seen some older model travel trailers out there, that aren't too expensive. It was just a thought. I am not sure what you all think about that. The trailer (provided that the didn't spend much on it, and that they didn't pay more for the trailer than it took to fix the bus) would let them get started traveling, and then have the bus fixed as soon as possible, so they could move to the bus...

Well enough for now...

Doug and family, I am praying for you.

God bless,

John

[plyonsMC9]

Hi Doug,

I just emailed you re: job stuff.   My 2 cents on the bus - give good, prayerful consideration of Dallas' offer.  I would suspect you will have a chance to return a like favor for some other busnut in the future.  Us busnuts look out for each other.    

Also, once you get a bus in good mechanical condition, regular maintenance, etc., I've found they really can take care of you.   Once fixed, it tends to stay fixed in that area.  Not like cars where you may have to keep replacing the same thing.  At least, that is what we have found.  Getting her to that point may cost the $$ - but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  And of course - don't skimp on the maintenance!!!!

Kind Regards, Phil

[HighTechRedneck]

The bus doesn't overheat when puttering around town, only on the highway.

The first leg of their journey, while towing a trailer, was, for the most part, uneventful - no overheating.

When checking the oil, there appeared to be no water in it - it was typical DD two-stroke black.

That little bit of info suggests to me that the engine itself may be ok, it's just a cooling issue.

Doug really needs an experienced, engine skilled bus nut to look at it.  It could be something as simple as one or more of the fans died or is losing rpm's.  Personally, I think that system needs to be torn out asap anyway and replaced with the original type of fan/shroud.  There are two problems with using the fan arrangement it has as I see it.  First and most importantly is the total cubic feet per minute capability.  I am seriously doubtful that four Nissan radiator fans can move the same cubic feet as the huge original fan.  Second, even if they did move the same cfm, the original shrouded fan pulled air through every bit of the radiator.  4 round fans mounted tightly to the radiator would leave a substantial amount of fin surface area with no airflow.

It pains me to think that a company like S&S would suggest an unnecessary engine rebuild.  But in their mind, they may have simply thought to "cover all bases in case there was consequential damage".  They are most accustomed to customers with budgets to cover such high dollar repairs.  Plus from what I've seen, most shops will try to "upsell" the repair ticket with items that would arguably restore it to 100% condition, but aren't "essential" to normal operation for many miles to come.

[BigDougInOregon]

Doug ,Jamie ,please do keep us posted as to the reply if any from the previous owners response,if that doesn't work I'm shure that an out pouring of folks here could go to their website to express a need for them to help in this (respectfully of course ),they could very well be on the road singing also(haven't checked their appearance dates yet).I will obviously wait for a reply from them first and go by what you feel should be recommended,whoa!  Van

Van, yes, we will keep all posted on whether they respond or not.  We are just praying for Gods will and that the right thing is done by them.

[BigDougInOregon]

Doug really needs an experienced, engine skilled bus nut to look at it.  It could be something as simple as one or more of the fans died or is losing rpm's.  Personally, I think that system needs to be torn out asap anyway and replaced with the original type of fan/shroud. 

I completely agree on both points.  I will say though that I spent a day and a half and about $300 to replace those four fans and rewire them with 10GA wire and a toggle switch (something the last do-gooder neglected to do) and the fans were working as good as they could be expected to (no doubt in my mind now that even if they were brand new and working at 110% efficiency they couldn't match the CFM flow of a 40HP fan that the DD's have on them).  I just hope that the times I did overheat didn't damage anything.  But no way for me to know that with my lack of knowledge about these old girls.

Thanks for your input and suggestions.  All very much appreciated.

Doug

[zubzub]

That's a nice looking bus.  Definitely not a scrapper.  Were there any documents supporting the rebuild?  How was driving it anyway, did the steering brakes suspension feel right/tight?  (Hard to say if this is the first bus you have driven).  Also if it has spring brakes/Maxis it is already pretty good value.  Hopefully the PO will give you some $ back as the fan system sounds really wrong and they should have at least told you about it.  You guys were careful about not overheating it which is great, so maybe all we're talking about is a new fan drive and shroud, which given how nice the bus looks (does it look as good in person?) is reasonable for the $ you paid.  Anyhow welcome to the community, sounds like you are getting a lot of help already, don't know how you are going to fit all the kids in there, some folks have built bay bedrooms with hatches etc  that could work, maybe this is a starter bus and later you'll get a scenicruiser.

[BigDougInOregon]

That's a nice looking bus.  Definitely not a scrapper.  Were there any documents supporting the rebuild?  How was driving it anyway, did the steering brakes suspension feel right/tight?  (Hard to say if this is the first bus you have driven).  Also if it has spring brakes/Maxis it is already pretty good value.  Hopefully the PO will give you some $ back as the fan system sounds really wrong and they should have at least told you about it.  You guys were careful about not overheating it which is great, so maybe all we're talking about is a new fan drive and shroud, which given how nice the bus looks (does it look as good in person?) is reasonable for the $ you paid.  Anyhow welcome to the community, sounds like you are getting a lot of help already, don't know how you are going to fit all the kids in there, some folks have built bay bedrooms with hatches etc  that could work, maybe this is a starter bus and later you'll get a scenicruiser.

No documents supporting the rebuild.  Yes, this is the first bus I have driven.  Driving was pretty good although when I would brake hard, it would make a loud thump and pull to the left but if I didn't step on the brakes too hard, it was fine.  It "floated" a little at 60MPH (the few times she got there) but overall, it seemed pretty tight.  High side winds were a little scary the first time, but I just slowed down and white knuckled it for a while.  To the PO's credit, they did tell us about the cooling system, but they assured us that it was adequate and that they had never had any issues with it.  Being neophytes, we believed them.  Hard to believe in three years they never experienced over heating.

God Bless,

Doug

[johns4104]

IT seems like the gospel group was short on funds and when the hydraulic fan drive went out they went cheap and put the electric fans on it.
We all know this is not enough to keep the 871 cool.
if the did have it on there for 3 years and are telling the truth about cooling.
Did they pull a trailer, drive in the heat, climb any mountians?
Seems to me this is a short term thing that they did just to sell this thing.
Anyway check and see it they or the guy that did it stall has the parts laying around so that they can be reinstalled!
Also the good news is that from what is being described the engine is not junk!!!

John

[HighTechRedneck]

Anyway check and see it they or the guy that did it stall has the parts laying around so that they can be reinstalled!

Excellent idea!

If they don't, you could call Nimco, they might have parts for that at a reasonable price.  Also there are bus graveyards that might have the parts (plus of course the parts people here have offered).

[zubzub]

No documents supporting the rebuild.  Yes, this is the first bus I have driven.  Driving was pretty good although when I would brake hard, it would make a loud thump and pull to the left but if I didn't step on the brakes too hard, it was fine.  It "floated" a little at 60MPH (the few times she got there) but overall, it seemed pretty tight.  High side winds were a little scary the first time, but I just slowed down and white knuckled it for a while.  To the PO's credit, they did tell us about the cooling system, but they assured us that it was adequate and that they had never had any issues with it.  Being neophytes, we believed them.  Hard to believe in three years they never experienced over heating.

God Bless,

Doug

The pulling sounds like the brakes are out of adjustment, no big deal, but must be done before you do any more highway driving.  The thump will have to be looked into, probably bushings.  My bus scared the hell out of me the first time I got up to 60...the next day I was used to it all day long.

[BigDougInOregon]

IT seems like the gospel group was short on funds and when the hydraulic fan drive went out they went cheap and put the electric fans on it.
We all know this is not enough to keep the 871 cool.
if the did have it on there for 3 years and are telling the truth about cooling.
Did they pull a trailer, drive in the heat, climb any mountians?
Seems to me this is a short term thing that they did just to sell this thing.
Anyway check and see it they or the guy that did it stall has the parts laying around so that they can be reinstalled!
Also the good news is that from what is being described the engine is not junk!!!

John

Yes, they pulled a trailer with a race car on it and drove about 1000 miles in three years(so they said).  They said it never overheated for them.  Kind of unlikely, but that is what they said.  They don't have the original parts because I asked when we got it
(not knowing what they were).

[John316]

How long would it take to rebuild the original cooling system? I have never reinstalled a system like that, so I just wondered if we were talking about a day, a week, or what...

God bless,

John

[Tom Y]

Doug, Were you able to get all the air out of the cooling system? So did you put in the amount you removed?  Tom Y