A REASONABLE model for my (and maybe your) bus's fuel mileage

[JimGnitecki]

I've read several reports both state and individual, and it's only slander if it's untrue. 

WHAT "reports both state and individual"?

You are accusing me of doing somehting wrong. Put up the evidence or take your lies elsewhere.

Jim G

[JackConrad]

I realzie that would feed and reward Cody's dispicable behavior, but hey, I don't want to be around people who believe a liar.
Jim G

Jim,
   No flaming is allowed on this BB.  From what I am reading, Cody has stated his opinion and posted some links to other sites, but he has not resorted to name calling. I see no placed that he lied, only stated his opinion.  Your friendly moderator.

[JimGnitecki]

I realzie that would feed and reward Cody's dispicable behavior, but hey, I don't want to be around people who believe a liar.
Jim G

Jim,
   No flaming is allowed on this BB.  From what I am reading, Cody has stated his opinion and posted some links to other sites, but he has not resorted to name calling. I see no placed that he lied, only stated his opinion.  Your friendly moderator.

Cody did much more than state an opinion. He basically implied, without presenting even a shred of proof (becaue none exists because I have done nothing illegal or immoral) that I am somehow doing something illegal or immoral elsewhere. If what Cody did is acceptable on this board, and the local "law" doesn't want to do anything about it, then God bless you guys, but I am out of here. Life is too short to spend it around bullies like Cody, in communities where they are not held accountable. Sooner or later the other good guys will recognize that.

Jim G

[usbusin]

This is really sad.  A new guy comes on-board and just because he approaches a problem from an engineering perspective he is ridiculed. 

I have Googled Jim Gnitecki and could only come up with praises for his work on other auto/motorcycle boards, etc.  He certainly doesn't try to hide anything.  He even uses his real name, a real email and a real phone number. 

What gives?  What is the deal?  Why is he being persecuted?

I don't know Jim, but I haven't seen what he has done wrong. 

[FloridaCliff]

This is really sad.  A new guy comes on-board and just because he approaches a problem from an engineering perspective he is ridiculed. 

I have Googled Jim Gnitecki and could only come up with praises for his work on other auto/motorcycle boards, etc.  He certainly doesn't try to hide anything.  He even uses his real name, a real email and a real phone number. 

What gives?  What is the deal?  Why is he being persecuted?

I don't know Jim, but I haven't seen what he has done wrong. 

Yeah ,  What gives here!

IF Jim has done or said something somewhere else.....say what it is!

But less some proof or fact.....This is totally unfair........and unwarranted.

I don't know Jim from Adam, but something doesn't sound right to me in these attacks of his posts.

Cody, if you know someting...SAY IT....quit this beating around the bush...

Enough of this the math or something is wrong, state WHAT is wrong  (exactly and in detail) or back off.

I have NO dog in this fight, but I am missing something here.


Cliff

[bobofthenorth]

It appears to me that we are seeing the new guy get beat up by the old guys who don't like new ideas.  What is particularly distressing is that our moderators seem more influenced by personal friendship than even handed moderation.  That is really disappointing and may explain why more lurkers don't become posters.

[usbusin]

Amen, Cliff and Bobofthenorth. 

I can't figure it out.

[Lin]

I gotta throw in a couple cents here.  I read only part of Jim's first posting.  It was going into far more detail than I could find useful now.  However, it is one of those postings that I would mentally note is available in archives should I ever want it.  I personally do not care if he sometimes hires out his skills.  There are several on this board that do that, and I think we can all agree, that we are happy to have them as resources should the need arise.  It is certainly true that engineering analysis can be carried to such a degree that it is pointless.  Also, that specific problems are best handled hands on.  But so what? 

I think that Jim's posts had interesting information even if I am not in need of it at this time.  I certainly did not see any snake oil for sale yet.  The hostility and accusations were just unnecessary and do a huge disservice to all, including the prosecutors.  Let's at least give someone a chance to screw up before being accused of something.

Jim,

If you are reading this, although I can understand your anger, it is out of line to call upon the moderators to publicly sanction someone and command an apology.  That is where I must disagree with your reaction.

Cody,

I too have corrections experience.  I realize that in that situation one must be watchful for games and scams, and that it is normal to develop a suspicious nature.   I usually found it better to let people talk without me putting much effort into sorting the real from the false until they asked for something.  There was just too much information to objectively sift through.  Some played it safe by adopting the maxim, "If their lips are moving, they're lying,"  which was accurate most, but not all, of the time.  As far as I was concerned, if they didn't try to get anything, it was just harmless talk.  If there was something wrong, it would show itself soon enough.  In short, lighten up.

[Jerry Liebler]

Jim,
    I've looked at your original post & a couple of things bother me.  Why are you content with the drag coefficient, it seems that it is far from known exactly enough to depend on.  Since you have observed 80+ mph in your bus, you know the governed speed is above 2100.  No engine horsepower data for either the stock bus engine or the "318" at speeds above 2100 is published.   Simply extrapolating the curve for the stock engine shows it'll produce a bit over 300 hp at 2250 and may well exceed 320 at 2500.  2500 is the rated speed for some 8V71 engines used as pumpers and many knowledgeable DD folks claim these engines can run 2700 or so with reasonable reliability.  We simply do NOT have enough data to get a reasonable model!  There is also a wide variation in fuel usage due to how well the injectors match throughout their range of operation.  Many of us have observed significant (some close to 20%) fuel economy improvement with well matched injectors.   If you want to model fuel economy vs speed, gather some data.  The first problem is getting accurate measurements of fuel used.  My digital fuel gauge helps.  Next run the same course under similar conditions (temp humidity etc.) at several selected constant speeds.  For most of us it's just too much trouble.  We'll drive at a comfortable speed and plan on a conservative (high) fuel use rate and be glad we did a bit better.  I drive between 60 and 65 and get 8 MPG towing my minivan or 65 to 70 without towing an get 8.5MPG.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

[kyle4501]

Jim,
just be glad you weren't challenging someones claims that a car can run on nothing but water, you'd better have thick skin if you're gonna do that. 
We won't even think about questioning any of the problems concerning biodiesel or other 'alternative' fuel systems. 

Regarding your spread sheet, I have too much A.D.D. & too many distractions (& not enough time) to get thru it . . . yet . . . . 


As for me, I don't worry about the bullies until they show up at my door.
I'm not loosing sleep as long as 'they' stay on the internet, OR continue with excuses like; they aren't welcome, can't make the trip, were threatened anonymously, etc.
Well, you get the idea . . . . 


BTW, having personal problems is still no excuse for bad behaviour. It is not productive & merely creates more opportunity for fools to expose themselves. 
To try to rationalize a poor choice by blaming other problems is denying the true cause & not helping you or anyone else to be a better person.
Does calling oneself a martyr make one a true martyr?
We all have our crosses to bear.

As for me, sometimes I can be a real first rate @$$hole. . . . but, usually I'm just second rate. 

[HighTechRedneck]

Cody has stated that in hindsight he might of handled the situation differently.  But at no time did he make excuses or blame it on his personal challenges.  That was another poster stating their take on it.

I would also point out this excerpt.  When Cody pointed out flaws in Jim's statements/calculations and asked what his background was, this was Jim's response to him:

Cody: Regretably, you know too little about what you are talking about to actually contribute to this discussion, or you read my text too sloppily!  ...

... As for credentials, go take a long hike on a short pier. What are YOUR credentials, wiseguy? I don't owe you any credentials, just as you owe me none. If you like what I write, believe that my writing reflects some knowledge and/or ability, and believe I am credible, continue to read my postings. If you dislike what I write, or think I am not credible, just don't read my postings. It's that simple. But, get out of the way when intelligent people ask intelligent questions and look for better answers to old questions. If that bothers you, just stay off this thread. Then, neither of us has to listen to each other!

Jim G

That is pretty much where "bad behavior" started in this thread.  Frankly, Cody responded alot more calmly than I have seen others in this forum respond to much lesser slams.

What came later would have been better handled through the moderating team, but was still more civil than some of the exchanges that have taken place here.

[Lin]

Hey guys, I think the horse is already dead!

[Blacksheep]

I have taken the time to read thru this crap and I personally must say if I was someone new coming to this site and read the accusations I would have high tailed it out of dodge and quick!
I have met Jim G in person and from first words spoken I knew him to be a really intelligent fellow even though his choice of bus was an Eagle! That in itself should prove he isn't a saint!  A pretty straight forward guy though and if he knows something and can provide a service and make money doing it then what makes him any different than you or me? Were all guilty of doing very similar things at one time or another!
What happens on any other board should stay there. What problems one has should be handled via pm's or the moderators!
Just MY opinion on someone that is new to bussing and whom I have met in person!

--- Moderator Edit - Forum Civility Rules ---

 I will always tell it like it is to you and anyone else! Everyone that knows me knows, they get no candy coating from me! No need to! So if you want to play games, ya'll play up there. Keep it off the board. Its not the place for it!

Ace

[HighTechRedneck]

OK folks.  The OP of this thread seems to have left the building and as Lin quite well said:

I think the horse is already dead!

Given the direction it is heading, it is also locked.