MCI E4500 Engine rebuild or replace?

[DanKeeton]

Looking at a 2001 MCI E4500. 930k miles. If I was to purchase this coach at $82,500, Should I reman the engine or replace it?

Dan

[buswarrior]

That's a lot of mileage for a 2001 model coach, not far off 100K per year.

You need to look at the price matrix of what's out there, engine done or not, how long ago, price up, price down.

I'd rather pay to have my own engine rebuilt, than get a low mileage "rebuild" that someone else did on a coach they were going to sell.

You are aware of the E model alignment challenges with tag steering, and the computer controlled suspension?

With that mileage, those things are liabilities, not assets.

The simplicity of the same vintage D model can put them at a higher price than the flagship E once you get down this deep in the market.

you pay your money, you take your chances?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[JohnEd]

That sounds like a mouth full of good advice to me.  You being a newbe, Dan,  should know that BW is a very long time old member and proved knowledgeable/reliable/experienced source.

All the best,
John

[DanKeeton]

Thanks BW and John

I am aware of the steering challenges in the E. This bus is being purchased from a very good friend whom I trust. I do know and have watched him take real good care of it. You don't get 930k miles not staying on top of every sound and rumble.

I have been searching and have been thru the ringer. All of the BS from sellers has me in a tail spin. I'd rather purchase this bus that I know, from a long time friend whom I trust, than to believe the BS that's been tossed my way over the last few months.

But, that's why I'm here. The experience of people like you, BW and others, will help me to watch for things I do not know. I'm not a diesel mechanic but, I have driven and been involved in coaches for over 26 years. There is a lot more I do not know than what I do.

I think my best option is to put away the $20,000 and use up what engine I have left and be prepared for what is coming.

You can let me have it, you won't hurt my feelings, I'm a BIG BOY!

Dan

[robertglines1]

get #'s off engine and go to detroit dealer they can give you a history of all work and detroit dealer has done(most dealers) They ran my 89 8v-92 and told me of a rebuild just before I got it..plesant surprise..worth a try.

[DanKeeton]

Sounds like a goods plan. Taking to MCI in Loudonville, OH first. Gonna have them go over it first then I'll go from there.

Dan

[Busted Knuckle]

Also Dan the main area of concern on an engine (series 60 anyway) with that many miles is the "bull gear" so I am told by our Detroit Dealers.

If it were me I'd go with Bob's suggestion of having the engine serial # ran. But keep in mind the only way it will show any rebuild etc. is if it was done in an authorized DD shop!

If there are no records of major overhaul I would look seriously into DD's stage III "option" for a piece of mind that will out last the coach in your time using it as a conversion with no worries.
FWIW   BK 

BTW better put back around $40,000 if you go the savings route by the time it "blows" that is roughly the replacement costs after towing, exchange engine, core charges (for unusable "major" parts), & labor in the event it is a major problem when it blows and it usually is.

[DanKeeton]

Thanks BK,

I am guessing from your comments that DD will give several options for an overhaul. Where can I get a list of these options and what does stage III consist of?

Is your $40,000 estimate for the stage III or is that a replacement?

Dan

[RJ]

Dan -

If I might ask a couple of somewhat "dumb" questions:

What's wrong with your Eagle?

Why give up the simplicity of the Eagle to delve into the complexity of the MCI?


You are aware, I hope, that a lot of campgrounds cannot accommodate 45-foot coaches.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 

[buswarrior]

Detroit offers a three stage rebuild program for the S60, called "StepUP" depending on what is needed, adding more parts at each stage. Standardized procedures and parts replacement.

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/  is the homepage.

http://detroitdieselstepup.com/ leads into the staged rebuild program. Upper left in the blue line for "StepUP overhaul for the 4 levels, with 4 being a fresh engine.

Yup, if you think a used car salesperson is a challenge, used bus sellers set the pace...

If you know the coach and present owner, the choice is getting pretty clear.

FWIW, anywhere that granny will comfortably drive her Cadillac, I will confidently go with an E model Renaissance. They simply turn that well. Shopping malls, side streets, no problem.

The Prevost H345 and MCI J model, and a D model with locked tags, cannot be taken into a shopping mall with the same wild abandon.

Sadly, we're not likely to see a coach turn like this again. $$$$ rules!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[RJ]

FWIW, anywhere that granny will comfortably drive her Cadillac, I will confidently go with an E model Renaissance. They simply turn that well. Shopping malls, side streets, no problem.

The Prevost H345 and MCI J model, and a D model with logged tags, cannot be taken into a shopping mall with the same wild abandon.

Sadly, we're not likely to see a coach turn like this again. $$$$ rules!

Buswarrior -

FYI, all Setras, from the early S215s thru the current production 417s, have consistently had much tighter turning radii than any of the North American coaches.

The current 45-foot 417 has a 40-foot turning radius - that's 5 feet tighter than the E MCI.

Just some miscellaneous trivia for you to ponder. . .

 

[Busted Knuckle]

FWIW, anywhere that granny will comfortably drive her Cadillac, I will confidently go with an E model Renaissance. They simply turn that well. Shopping malls, side streets, no problem.

The Prevost H345 and MCI J model, and a D model with logged tags, cannot be taken into a shopping mall with the same wild abandon.

Sadly, we're not likely to see a coach turn like this again. $$$$ rules!

Buswarrior -

FYI, all Setras, from the early S215s thru the current production 417s, have consistently had much tighter turning radii than any of the North American coaches.

The current 45-foot 417 has a 40-foot turning radius - that's 5 feet tighter than the E MCI.

Just some miscellaneous trivia for you to ponder. . .

 

[Busted Knuckle]

Thanks BK,

I am guessing from your comments that DD will give several options for an overhaul. Where can I get a list of these options and what does stage III consist of?

Is your $40,000 estimate for the stage III or is that a replacement?

Dan

Dan,
I apologize for not being more accurate. I meant the 3/4 version of the stage 4! Which is a replacement engine with full warranty!
You should be able to get that for the $40,000.00

According to Detroit on high mileage engines the "bull gear" is a big liability and the main issue they point out "will cause problems before a re-powers warranty runs out, but is not covered by the warranty, and can void the warranty if it damages certain things."
FWIW   BK 

[buswarrior]

The Setra salesperson is not succeeding to sell in our northern markets.

I don't know the reason.

MCI and Prevost own the road.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

Setra must be doing it right in the NW we been in Idaho and Utah being a bus guy I noticed the S417 out numbered the Prevost ,Vanhool and MCI five to one for the operators could be the financing also but either way those are the best looking bus on the road to me.
One thing I wonder about the Setra and Vanhool is are they going to be Eagle of the future being all metal


good luck