Help / advice removing an air filter... (and replacing engine air intake?)

[technomadia]

The engine air filter of our 4106 had been upgraded from the old oil canister system to a replaceable canister (specifically a Farr EcoLite Air Cleaner C-62891-1 U) at some point in the past - probably in 1989 when the bus was converted.

Not trusting in the age or condition of the old air filter, we've ordered in a new replacement - an identically sized and specced Wix 46891 (only $117 on Amazon!).

The problem - I can't get the old filter out!

(Check the attached pictures to follow along...)

The filter is attached to the engine by a rubber fitting that doesn't seem to compress enough to slide off the bottom of the filter's flange. Maybe it did so when the rubber was new and fresh.  But right now, even with two people pulling I can't get the rubber to slide down far enough.

The only alternative seems to be to remove the half dozen bolts that clamp the other end of the rubber intake to the top of the engine.  But I am hesitant to do so without some advice first - I don't think the rubber on the intake will survive the procedure and that would leave us stuck without a new or old filter if I take such drastic action and the rubber crumbles.

Questions -- any words of wisdom or advice on how to get the old filter out without needing to unbolt on the engine side?

Where can I get a replacement for the rubber intake fitting?  The rubber is old and starting to crack and probably worth replacing even if I can get the filter off at the top.   The diameter is 6", and the length is 3" - 4".  It seems to require a very large flange to mate properly with the top of the 8V71.

If I do remove the entire intake from the top of the engine, what should I keep in mind when reinstalling it?  What will I need to do to make a proper seal?  There seems to be some old gasket sealant leaking out around the bottom where the old fitting had been attached.

Final question - any tips on how to protect any dirt or gasket material from falling into the top of the engine while I am changing out the air filter?

Any and all help appreciated.  I am hoping to get this fixed before we depart St. George this weekend or early next week.

Cheers!

   - Chris

[John316]

Chris,

You said any help would be appreciated. Hence why I will go ahead and post. But you are being warned. I really don't know what I am talking about. I am simply throwing ideas out, in hopes that somebody else will chime in shortly. LOL, so there .

I would first make sure, as I assume that you have, that the rubber is 100% loose. I often will use a seal pick, and slip that in there just to make sure. If you still can't get it, I would then try to replace that hose. Check with your local auto shops to see if anybody has anything flexible. Online, check out just about anything flexible. http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/wetex_hose.htm The top result on that page looks pretty good, but then again who knows how much it would cost. You only need a couple of inches.

Cutting the old out, maybe a simple razor blade, clean cut, keep dirt out. Then put a rag down there, carefully, and make sure it is sealed completely. Then clean everything up.

I hope that helps.

For anybody else who is wondering exactly what the air filter is, here you go. http://tinyurl.com/3qleku9

John

[luvrbus]

Chris, remove the 6 bolts on the air horn flange ring then it will slide out,the ring is not made onto the hose, to reinstall put the hose on the filter first slide it back install the bolts in the air horn and boogie on my friend  

good luck

[technomadia]

Chris, remove the 6 bolts on the air horn then it will slide out...

Awesome - it is good to know that removing the bolts is the right way to do it, and that the part I am looking for is an "air horn".

The rubber on the air horn looks in pretty bad shape and is starting to crack - do you know where I should look to find a replacement?  I worry that if I take the current horn entirely off, it is likely to crack or tear in the process. 

Also - any tips on sealant when I reinstall it?

Thanks yoda!

   - Chris

[luvrbus]

It a filter to air horn hose Luke will have a original but they had a flange top and bottom looks to me like somebody modified an original and you would need to do the same because the bottom has a molded rubber flange but the top flange has been cut off to accept the Parker Eco filter check Air Flow Systems they may have one I buy my rubber hose fitting there for turbos from the air cleaner yours is called a hump hose

www.store.airflo.com 

good luck

[TomC]

Next time, buy an air cleaner where you just replace the paper element inside the can-rather then having to replace the entire sealed air cleaner can.  Many air cleaners are made sealed because the dingbat mechanics and truck drivers trying to replace the element weren't smart enough to figure out which way they went in first.  Using a replaceable element is much cheaper then replacing the whole can everytime.  Good luck, TomC

[eagle19952]

http://store.airflo.com/rubber-hoses---clamps.html




You would do well to replace the cheeezy worm screw clamps i see there too...clic forward to page 3.



PS You might have to use your razor knife to custom fit the  height of your hump....don't poke your eye out.
Cheers !
Donald

[technomadia]

It a filter to air horn hose Luke will have a original but they had a flange top and bottom looks to me like somebody modified an original and you would need to do the same because the bottom has a molded rubber flange but the top flange has been cut off to accept the Parker Eco filter check Air Flow Systems they may have one I buy my rubber hose fitting there for turbos from the air cleaner yours is called a hump hose

Ours still has the rubber top flange, but it is hanging loose above the top clamp to the air filter.  That lose rubber is where the hose is most distressed and cracking.

The ones on the Air Flow Systems website seem to be the right size, but without the bottom flange how should I mate it to the top of an 8V71?

Thanks!

  - Chris

[eagle19952]

Correct me if i am wrong....it appears as tho the air flo is ( in your application) going from the end or inside (180* or parallel to the housing) of the filter to the "outlet" that is 90* degrees to the housing....every filter i have ever encountered the "inside" was the cleaned air side or the proper direction of flow....

[technomadia]

Correct me if i am wrong....it appears as tho the air flo is ( in your application) going from the end or inside (180* or parallel to the housing) of the filter to the "outlet" that is 90* degrees to the housing....every filter i have ever encountered the "inside" was the cleaned air side or the proper direction of flow....

This style of filter is explicitly designed to work with airflow in either direction.  I confirmed this before ordering it, and again when I read the installation instructions it came with.

Thanks!

   - Chris

[eagle19952]

Correct me if i am wrong....it appears as tho the air flo is ( in your application) going from the end or inside (180* or parallel to the housing) of the filter to the "outlet" that is 90* degrees to the housing....every filter i have ever encountered the "inside" was the cleaned air side or the proper direction of flow....

This style of filter is explicitly designed to work with airflow in either direction.  I confirmed this before ordering it, and again when I read the installation instructions it came with.

Thanks!

   - Chris

What will they think of next

[technomadia]

With Clifford's assurance that it was cool to "boogie on", we were successful in removing the air filter, and the old rubber air horn indeed looks usable to mount the new filter to the top of the engine.

And the old air filter was in scary sad shape.  It was definitely long overdue for a replacement.

But now we've discovered a new problem....

The connection from the old filter to the air intake box (where air comes in from outside the bus) was made with what appears to be a section of completely rigid green sewer hose.

We are finding it essentially impossible to get the filter lined up and into this piece of hose - I am starting believe that the filter mounts securing it to the roof might have actually been installed after the hoses were hooked up.  The hose has no flex or give, making it near impossible to bend it in the ways necessary to line it up.

I think the answer is to replace this section of hose.

Is there any reason to not use 6" Semi-Rigid Aluminum Air Duct, like you can find at any Home Depot?

Is there a better alternative?  Where else can I find a 6" diameter air hose that is around 6" long?

Thanks!

  - Chris

[luvrbus]

Chris, use the flex to get you on the road but wrap it with aluminum tape the stuff is not air tight then order you a piece of 4 ply silicone hose it is a lot easier to work with than the rubber in a tight spot and will last forever

good luck

[technomadia]

We <3 luvrbus!    Thank you!

 - CnC

[technomadia]

then order you a piece of 4 ply silicone hose it is a lot easier to work with than the rubber in a tight spot and will last forever

Any tips on where to get 6" diameter silicone hose at?

I found this:
http://intakehoses.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=C40B-600X6&Category_Code=SC4

Is this what you have in mind?

Here is a rubber "hump hose" that looks like it might work too:
http://store.airflo.com/3h6.html

For the time being, I think we'll grab some air duct and aluminum tape.

Thanks!

   - Chris