Looking to Buy - Repowering MC-5Cs and other questions

[Escape Velocity]

Hi,

I've been lurking around the edges of the bus world for a few years reading forums, BCM the magazine, books on converted buses, etc.  I've read all the newbie info sheets and lots of archives here and on BusNuts.  I've only posted a few times here.  I've wanted a bus a for some years now, but was only marginally ready and only if it was "the perfect bus" (HAHA) for me.  Now it's time to switch from looking to leaping.    I need a bus soon.  I am already nuts.   

[Backstory]
We've been RVing for about ten years, always renting while we didn't have a good storage location and didn't really know our needs or use case well.   Immediate use case is typical RV travel, longer term is to full time.  We don't want to travel fast - country highways are ideal, but we will need to climb the occasional mountain, if slowly.  Ideally the bus would be ready to roll even if not pretty, but given our budget, we're willing to make some compromises in terms of timing.  Weeks or a few months of repair or modification time to hit the road this summer is within reason, years are not.  Our expectation is for a "daily driver", not a project bus or a track car (to mix my metaphors). We're willing to wait longer on some modifications (sleeping arrangements, solar, towing, etc.).  I have some technical/mechanical knowledge (car based, more modern) as does my partner (more extensive knowledge, familiar with older-school cars like Beetles, decent bicycle mechanic, great with electrical, plumbing and figuring stuff out).  We are fix-it types, just (mostly) bus ignorant.  I'm sure owning one would improve that in a hurry.  LOL

While looking for a bus, our must haves are:
1. Structurally sound 35' bus that is already converted to an RV
2. Has storage bays (e.g. no school buses)
3. Allows for a tall man to stand up straight, minimum 6'4" internal height
4. Mechanically sound or close (able to be made so within reason given time and money - I know... haha)
5. Repairs and normal maintenance parts obtainable without miracles (no unicorn parts)

Our want list includes a few more items, all negotiable for starters:
1. Sufficient power to tow a small (e.g. 2600 lb) car
2. Manual transmission (one of us wants it, the other is less enthusiastic, but we both love and prefer to drive manual cars)
3. Decent kitchen area (we love to cook)
4. Two dedicated bedrooms/sleeping areas (we have a teenager, we don't want to permanently rely on convertible sleeping arrangements)
5. Boondocking friendly elements like big tanks, solar power, and extra insulation
6. Set up for toad - flat tow

If you know of buses for sale that meet all my needs, I'm all internet ears.  Raised roof has been the toughest need for a 35' bus

I am looking at a MCI-5C.  It's nice inside and checks a few of my wants and almost all my needs.  I've had it inspected.  Of course the inspection found some things, so I have a few decision points to work my way through.  First and foremost is the engine.  Advice would be greatly appreciated.

ENGINE/TRANSMISSION:  It currently has a rebuilt 6V71 with an Allison Automatic; it looks pretty slobbery.  Inspection says it's leaking in multiple places so it needs work.  (I know...  they all need something most of the time.)  I wonder if it could make it home (of course it's across the country from me).  However, since I already know it's it's under powered with the current DD, I'm wondering about repowering it immediately and factoring that into the cost.  If I understand things, the 6V92 or 6V92TA are the only (mostly?) "drop in" replacement choices.  I'm agnostic and under-educated on transmission choices.  I'm looking for rough numbers on how much repowering would cost me.

Thank you,

Deb

[luvrbus]

6v92 with a 740 Allison is the easiest the 6v71 will have a 600 series Allison and the 6v92 is a little to much unless it is a 647 Allison.You need to relocate the turbo for the install since there is not enough clearance for a top mounted turbo. 
So you have new piping for the air intake and exhaust the rest is straight forward.The price is going to depend on the price you pay for the engine and transmission you are looking at about 20 grand IMO doing some work your self, advice run the 6v71 till it dies it maybe a long time     

[Geoff]

If you can find a 35' RTS already converted it would satisfy all your requirements.

[buswarrior]

6' 4" is tough. I am the same.

Without a roof raise, we will be stooping and ducking in all the older highway coaches.

The noted RTS model would be good for interior height, but underneath will be a compromise.

A 6V71 will get there, you have to adjust your expectations back to the late 60's, when many a truck and bus crawling up the slopes was normal, as we whizzed past in our automobiles.

Pick yer poison.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Oonrahnjay]

... The noted RTS model would be good for interior height, but underneath will be a compromise.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

     Gary Throneberry ("Garhawk" on this forum) was working on an RTS for a while.  It's the same body style is Geoff's but Gary had welded up and built in a number of plain flat bottomed "bays" and also some roller drawer-style bins in the area where the bays would be on a highway coach.  My guess is that it was less complicated (although a larger number of complete items to do) than Jason Blake's recent build for his pull-out generator mount.  From the outside, it was hard to detect that they were there or that the bus had been modified.  Gary also closed in the original transit door and put in a "Gene Lewis" door just to the rear of the right front tire; also less complicated than Jason's gen mount.   There are ways to skin every cat.

[bevans6]

I have an MC-5C, they are good buses in my opinion.  Biggest flaw is the drop-box setup with the differential but that's the same as an Eagle and if it's good, it's good.  MC-5's use an angled engine install with unique engine cradles - yours is set for a 6v engine which is what makes a 6V-92 install very possible.   But not easy.  There is no room over the engine for the normal 6V-92TA turbo install so you need to either move the turbo to the side of the engine (what I did with my 8V71T install) or completely rework the cooling fan setup above the engine.   People have done both but it's custom fabrication either way and if you don't happen to do that already, it will cost a lot.  Speaking of cooling, a 6V92TA with a HT740 and a water cooled transmission cooler will not stay cool with the stock radiators, people retrofit MC-9 radiators from a bus that had a 6v-92. My MCI manual says the 5C with 6V71 got the 740 Allison behind it, which would be ideal - unique drop-box input yoke and driveshaft you probably could reuse or modify for the 6V-92.  I did significant measuring and felt that I could put a Series 50 4 cylinder engine in, but I was considering keeping the 4 speed spicer because I don't think an Allison (either 647 or 740) will fit.  I personally would recommend NOT getting a four speed manual.  The Spicer is quite hard to shift, the clutch is quite heavy (Mine was getting to be too much for 60 year old, 6'-2" 235 lb man legs to be happy with.  Virtually impossible to hold down at a long traffic light, and virtually impossible to shift into first gear when hot.  Some of that is wear issues, but any old bus with have about the same wear issues. 

[luvrbus]

Brian, I think that is a miss print in the manual with a 740 and 6v71 I been around a dozen of the 5's with 6v71 they all had the 600 series never saw a 740 in one with a 6v71 

[bevans6]

I thought it was odd, but there is actually a whole section on the 740 in my manual.  I didn't think the 6 cyl engine was enough shorter to let it fit, but it shows detail of the driveshaft and the yoke into the trans and drop box rather than the flange input.  Maybe it was an option or wishful thinking... 
 Also I think I mentioned that my MT 647 was upgraded during rebuild from a MT644, so that can maybe be an option for someone.

Brian

[Dave5Cs]

I also have an MCI MC-5C Saudi Bus. With a 6V-71 and the Allison  MT644. Ya its slow up hills but will go 68 on the flats. We just got back from an 8,000 mile trip up the country with no problems. A few leaks but no big. I did measure putting a 740 behind ours and it was IIRC 2-1/4"Aprox to long unless we took off the bumper and left the rear doors opened, LOL
I am 6 foot with plenty of head room and big kitchen. I too would not get one with a manual. 

Dave

[luvrbus]

I also have an MCI MC-5C Saudi Bus. With a 6V-71 and the Allison  MT644. Ya its slow up hills but will go 68 on the flats. We just got back from an 8,000 mile trip up the country with no problems. A few leaks but no big. I did measure putting a 740 behind ours and it was IIRC 2-1/4"Aprox to long unless we took off the bumper and left the rear doors opened, LOL
I am 6 foot with plenty of head room and big kitchen. I too would not get one with a manual.  

Dave

JC's 5C has a 740 with the 6v92 his looks like he has room to spare,a 740 with retarder would be a little tight though
 

[Escape Velocity]

Thank you all for the input!  Much to think about...  repowering sounds like it's more on the expensive side than I guessed at $20K plus (since our faculty with engine work doesn't extend to custom fabrication).  We'll be starting with basics like oil changes and routine maintenance before fabrication LOL... 

The 5C I'm looking is leaking some oil.  So we've been reading about oil leaks...  teaspoons okay, tablespoons not, etc.  What time frame is that measurement based on?  Overnight and a refrigerator box set up underneath?

The owner, a guy who restores old cars, seems very trustworthy.  He's gone out of his way to check things, answer tons of questions, take it in for an inspection, etc.  I genuinely feel he's being totally straight with me.  The inspection guy (an RV place, diesel experience, but not DD) was a bit of doom and gloom about the amount of oil it was leaking.  He said after sitting overnight it had six small 2" spots under it and it had one larger spot ~8" after sitting and idling when the bus first arrived.  The owner thinks the amount of oil leakage is within normal and thinks it will have no problem going cross country.  Engine was rebuilt 75K ago.  I think this one has seen little use the last few years sitting in a storage facility until he decided to sell and I wanted an inspection...    If a bus hadn't been used in a while would you expect extra leakage until the seals got re-lubricated by use? 

I'm feeling a bit torn by the whole 3,000 miles away and polar opposite opinions.  I thought the inspection would make my decision easier...  haha

[luvrbus]

You will get to the 20 grand before you know it, you can buy take out engines but you never know what you have till it's to late ,to upgrade the cooling systems for a different hp engine will be in thousands alone,then a different engine is not going to like the 4:11 rear gear lol it goes on and on so does the $$$, it's not for the faint of heart for sure  

[Lee Bradley]

Get a newer 40', 102", 60 series and it will still be small for all that you want.

[windtrader]

Hi,
I'm a noobie too. Started looking for a coach in Dec 2016 and bought one in June 2017. It's fine to be a "busnut" but be a smart one. No one here would disagree that owing a bus is like living on the Moon. If you've done sufficient reading, you already know this and also know how critical is to choose properly in order to maintain your sanity and bank account.

Acquiring a solid 40 year or older motor coach is no easy task, far too many with far too many expensive issues. From one being highly risk averse, here are my opinions and thoughts.

The most critical factors are #4 and #1 on your list. These far outweigh all others with respect to experiencing the lowest operating cost and highest reliability. It is vital to have as complete and accurate assessment of the operating condition of the motor, transmission, and other running components. Operating a bus is significantly more expensive for parts and labor. Cars reference units in quarts, busses use gallons.

The chassis must be rust free and have full functioning running gear. Something as simple as a tire is a big deal when buying a bus. Just a single tire can cost as much as a full set for a car. Then you do that 8 times to buy a full set for a bus.

Move the '35 requirement down or less important. Many other factors take priority. Buying an already converted coach is very sound. The current marketplace for used old bus conversions heavily favors buyers; there are lots to choose from, so take your time and do your homework and buy right. Good luck.

[Dave5Cs]

Clifford could JC's have a shorter Drive shaft than mine. I thought about trimming it down at one time.