Author Topic: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.  (Read 36646 times)

Offline Rockabilly

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Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« on: September 07, 2020, 04:05:57 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Our family is finally ready to take the plunge and become "1st Time Bus Owners", yaaaah  ;D.  We are excited to combine 2 hobbies, camping & classics.  We have come across many buses hitting the market and were hoping perhaps someone on here would have some wisdom & guidance towards Buying a Bus for Newbs.  Different Pro's & Cons of the different makes/models, Engines etc.  Also when looking at older camperized units (45-67 era) what are things to look out for, as well as expected price points.

Looking forward to learning more about buses,

Kindest regards,

Drew & PJ
Drew Orosz & Pj Frazer
Star Fire Farms ~ Threadz Print Shop ~ Rockabilly Rollers
Beulah, MB

Offline uncle ned

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2020, 04:35:42 PM »


Just hang around and be ready for more info than you can adsorb.

just do not ask about oil,or tires,or 35ft or 40 ft or45 ft.

and for gods sake do not ask about eagles gm or mci

lol lol but you have found the greatest bunch of people and bus info there is.

uncle ned
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Offline Busted Knuckle

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2020, 06:58:26 AM »

Just hang around and be ready for more info than you can adsorb.
just do not ask about oil,or tires,or 35ft or 40 ft or45 ft.
and for gods sake do not ask about eagles gm or mci
lol lol but you have found the greatest bunch of people and bus info there is.

uncle ned


You forgot OIL! Always need to find out which OIL is best!
;D  BK  ;D
Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

;D Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! ;D (at least thats what momma always told me! ;D)

Offline lvmci

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2020, 08:11:35 AM »
Drew, Besides mechanical problems, RUST is one of the big ones. Depending on an older 1 million mile bus, or a newer 3 million mile frame, there are specific areas to look. MCIs, Eagles, GMs and others also have specific areas to look for rust, but there are common areas to look. So attend a bus nut Rally, ask questions, busnuts are friendly, read the two bus nut online forums and When you start the search for real, find a bus nut near you and bring him with you, When you look at a specific bus. When you start to like one brand over another, leaning towards a 35' to 45', tour with the family or without,  drive thru mountains or flatlands, ice area or desert, all these will contribute towards the most comfortable ease into the best fit for you, lvmci...
MCI 102C3 8V92, Allison HT740
Formally MCI5A 8V71 Allison MT643
Brandon has really got it going!

Offline someguy

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2020, 11:22:21 AM »
Here is a list that I've compiled so far for E/J4500s.   Apply as needed to what you are looking at.

1) What brakes does it have? DLisa and EX225 are good.  Other brake types: ask your local coach service company about parts and local knowledge working on them.

2) Does it use gold bricks or multiplex system?  Gold bricks are hard to find and expensive.

3) If it is a DPF equipped bus, get the service history on the DPF and SCR.  Has it been washed?  Replaced?   Deleted?  Then pull the codes on the engine to read how plugged the DPF is and when it was last regened.  If you can, force a manual regen and read the plugged percentage after.

4) Check engine oil pressure at idle when hot.

5) Drain a small amount of oil out of the crankcase when the engine is cold and has been sitting.   Check for antifreeze.  Send some away for sampling.  This is especially important on the Cat C13, which is know to leak anti freeze into the oil which causes crank issues if not caught.

6) Watch engine blow by when at idle and at max RPM when cold and hot.

7) Inspect tires.   Note the tread depth, condition, size and date codes.  Make sure the bus has the right size tires (11s and 12s versus 315s) and make sure they are all the same.  Verify which ones are recaps and which ones are virgin.  Note any abnormal tread wear, especially on the steering tires as that often indicates steering or suspension issues.

8) Note when the bus last passed a commercial vehicle inspection.  See if the inspector's notes are available.  Search the bus's DOT number if it is available.

9) Inspect under the radiators and hoses for coolant leaks.  Squeeze the radiator hoses when cold to see how pliable they are.

10) Inspect the shock absorbers for leaks, rust, etc.

11) Inspect hubs for leaks.

12) Check that all lights on the bus work.

13) Time how long it takes for the bus to build air pressure.  Shut off the engine.  How fast does it lose air pressure ?  Walk around the bus and listen for air leaks.  Best not to do this near a freeway where it is noisy.

14) Check all the windows in the bus.  If it has dual pane windows, check for condensation.  Replacement windows are expensive.

15) Check the baggage compartment and underneath for rust.  Most E/Js will be entirely rust free in this area.

16) Jack up the front axle.  Get a bar and pry the bottom of each steer wheel up and down.  Note any play.  If there is play, it is probably the kingpins, which will probably need to be replaced.   Pry the wheel side to side.  This is steering gear play.  It will need to be fixed to pass inspection.

17) With the engine running and the bus stationary, turn the steering wheel to get a feel for free play in the steering system. I think 1.75" is allowed.  Not sure.  The less the better.

17)  Check the disk brake wear indicators on each wheel.

18) Check the condition of the air bags.   Look for leaks and dry rot.

19) Check that both alternator lights go out when the engine is running.  Check the battery voltage at idle to make sure charging is happening.

20) Inspect the batteries. Note the date codes.  Wouldn't hurt to do a hydrometer and/or load test.

21) Check the ABS light goes out.  If not, pull the codes using the dash board.  The bus probably won't pass inspection with an active ABS error light.  Any errors will need to be fixed.

22) Inspect the front and rear bogies.  MCI calls bogies the steel that the front and rear axle are mounted to.  Bogies are made from mild steel, not SS like the baggage compartment area.  Look for excessive rust, cracks and repairs.  Visually check all the suspension bushings.

23) Check that the coolant heater fires up.

24) Check that the bus has a spare tire in the spare tire holder, date code, air pressure.

25) Check the brakes and steering on a test drive.  Watch for smoke when accelerating.  Watch engine coolant temp.

26) Inspect all the engine accessory drive belts.

27) Inspect the fan clutch for play.  Look for oil leaks on the fan angle drive gear box. 

28) If it is an E with a steerable tag axle, check that the tag axle steers properly when the front wheels are turned.  Bus probably has to be rolling a bit to allow this to happen.

29) Remove the air cleaner.  Reach through the filter canister to the air intake hose going to the engine.  Is there any dust ?

30) Observe any new paint on the engine to get clues for what parts have been replaced.  Idlers, turbocharger, water pump, head ?  Look at the engine cradle bolts.   If they are new or super clean, the engine/transmission assembly has probably been out recently.

31) Check the engine and transmission serial number against what MCI has on file.  Unmatching serial numbers mean they have been replaced.

32) Check if the OTR A/C system works.

33) Thoroughly inspect the bus wiring for hacks.   You want it to be all stock and working.  Nothing worse than fixing someone else's hacks.

34) Pull ECM fault codes.  Verify that the ECM mileage matches the odometer mileage.

35) Get any and all services records that are available for the bus.  If it is being sold at a used bus yard, find out who last ran it and call them to ask about the bus.

36) Check that the tag axle lifts properly.

37) Crawl under the bus (while safely blocked up) and check for oil leaking out of the flywheel bellhousing.  Oil leaking here is probably due to a bad rear main seal on the engine.

38) Inspect the drive shaft for play and any obvious issues. 

I left out testing the transmission.  This is an evolving list as I learn more about these buses.   The MCI maintenance manual is really good at explaining things.  It's available free online.

Good luck.

Offline Beluga Bus

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 03:20:58 PM »
Hi Drew and PJ,
As an owner of one of the oldest busses on this board, I would say it is a good idea to get out and go to a bus rally. With the year range you are looking for, find a GM or Flxible rally to attend. You can talk to owners of each specific model and find the ins and outs of each.

I bought my bus in 2015 and joined the Western GM Coach club to find out more about the bus I purchased. I was informed that I was the club expert on PG2904 series busses, as no one had ever seen one before.
Matt
PG 2904
Long Beach, CA

Offline luvrbus

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2020, 04:04:26 PM »
Hi Drew and PJ,
As an owner of one of the oldest busses on this board, I would say it is a good idea to get out and go to a bus rally. With the year range you are looking for, find a GM or Flxible rally to attend. You can talk to owners of each specific model and find the ins and outs of each.

I bought my bus in 2015 and joined the Western GM Coach club to find out more about the bus I purchased. I was informed that I was the club expert on PG2904 series busses, as no one had ever seen one before.
Matt


Matt did your PG2904 come from GM with the 4-71 ? I thought the PG was a gasoline engine coach
Life is short drink the good wine first

Offline Beluga Bus

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2020, 04:43:42 PM »
Clifford, yea the PG2904 came with a Buick straight 6 according to the maintenance book. I was told mine was changed to the 4-71 and 5 speed during to conversion in the 60s. The PD2903 is the same bus but had a factory 4-71 and 4 speed.
Matt
PG 2904
Long Beach, CA

Offline Utahclaimjumper

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2020, 06:37:04 PM »
 Matt,,, do you think the engine and trans change had anything to do with climbing the Utah mountains with passengers.??  Or was the change after that ??>>>Dan
Utclmjmpr  (rufcmpn)
 EX 4106 (presently SOB)
Cedar City, Ut.
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Offline someguy

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 08:23:15 PM »
Not one of you has contributed a single thing to this thread except to say watch for rust and attend a busnuts event.  And you hijack it with your discussion of the PG2904.  :^

Offline freds

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2020, 08:33:44 PM »
The only thing that I can say is how adventurous are you?

Do you want to start with a seated bus and do everything from scratch or are you looking for a bus that is already converted and that you can start camping with to decide how you would modify it?

I do think that I over spent on my bus, but it appeared to be a fleeting opportunity and I had only looked at three buses total which were in the following shape:

1. Totally gutted with no windows installed, but supposedly on hand.
2. Converted bus but the bathroom doors was rough painted plywood and a window air conditioner hanging out the drivers side of the bus. I had asked for a cold start, but engine was warm when I got there.
3. Bus that never did commercial service  and came from the factory as a motor home. Was still a bit rough, but hey wasn't afraid to show to friends as project to work on.

Key thing is paper work, what kind of servicing has been done and how old are the tires. Be ready to spend 10-15K immediately after you take it home.


Offline luvrbus

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2020, 08:57:58 PM »
Someguy I asked the question since the bus model was out there already,I am sorry you got but hurt after your long winded post which was good BTW but I don't think the guy is looking for a new bus, if you take time to read a 1945 to 1967 bus your post was a waste of time because he doesn't want a newer bus with all the crap   
Life is short drink the good wine first

Offline someguy

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2020, 10:00:20 PM »
Someguy I asked the question since the bus model was out there already,I am sorry you got but hurt after your long winded post which was good BTW but I don't think the guy is looking for a new bus, if you take time to read a 1945 to 1967 bus your post was a waste of time because he doesn't want a newer bus with all the crap   

Which is why I prefaced it with "Apply as needed to what you are looking at."  The bus he will buy has tires, right ? Shocks ?  A radiator ?   What did you contribute ?

"But" hurt ?  LOL.  Not the least.

Quote
Matt did your PG2904 come from GM with the 4-71 ? I thought the PG was a gasoline engine coach

WTH does this have to do with a newbie asking about what to look for in a buying a bus ? Did he say he was buying a PG2904 or did you guys just want to start a humblebrag conversation ? 

And how practical is it to tell everyone that they should travel half way across the country to talk to a few supposed "experts" at the next event, which will happen who knows when, given COVID ?  Why aren't those supposed experts contributing something to this thread ?  They seem to have endless energy when it comes time to bitch about something they don't agree with.

Offline Van

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2020, 10:08:10 PM »
Welcome aboard Rockabilly to the Busnut community. Some of the most visually exciting coaches out there are the ones are of the vintage you are interested in. keep on the hunt and be sure to post the ones that peek your interest here so the members can chime in and give you plenty of pointers on it. What area are you located in for starters? There may be a busnut located near you or near the bus that may be able to help out with a Pre-Purchase inspection. Wish you all the best in your search.
 Van.
B&B CoachWorks
Bus Shop Mafia.
Now in N. Cakalaki

Offline Van

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Re: Bus Buying Guide - Do's & Don'ts when buying a bus.
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2020, 10:23:44 PM »
Hey SomeDude, you need to cool your jets son. There's a nice lil' link at the bottom of every post for you to press where you can lodge a complaint ;). That's how it works around these parts, other wise just change the channel.

  Happy bus shopping.
   Van.
B&B CoachWorks
Bus Shop Mafia.
Now in N. Cakalaki

 

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