2005 International CE200 with "Check Elec System" light on

[adv_nomadic]

Hey everyone,

Been putzing around the west for a few weeks in a WIP conversion I'm doing to a 2005 International CE200. Haven't had many problems up until yesterday when I took it a little too rough on some unforgiving terrain. Luckily I made it into the spot where I planned on parking for a little while, but...

Right as I pulled in, I wanted to go just a tad further up, but my gas pedal was lame. It springs back up into position, but when I press it there's no resistance and no gas getting to the engine. Engine was still running fine. I didn't think to try and put it into any gears other than going from N to D and trying the pedal again with no luck. My first thought is that something has been shaken/knocked loose from all the bouncing I had just gone through.

It was dark and I decided to just setup camp and start looking again in the morning, since I'll be here for a while. Since then I've researched a little and taken a quick look at some things, but I can't really see any issues with the naked eye. I decided to see if it would crank, and do some troubleshooting to see if any of the other gears would work. However, when I turn the key on and the panel goes through its motions, then I get the "Check Elec System" light. I try to turn the key to ignition, and all I hear is a loud click from the area that the fuse blocks are located (maybe between those and the dash somewhere).

I'm not a diesel mechanic, or even a regular mechanic, by any stretch. I've mostly worked on motorcycles and smaller 2-stroke engines, so I have some knowledge, but mostly just willingness to try things out. I'm fairly far away from mechanic shops, too, unfortunately. I have a motorcycle I can ride into town for parts, but as far as my abilities where the bus is right now they are limited to mostly hand tools. I have insurance to get the whole thing towed, but I'm trying to use that as a last resort and would just take to a mechanic at that point.

Any who, in saying all that, does anyone have any suggestions for what to look at next? I haven't done a whole lot yet, just what I've written here so far and I'll keep updated as best as I can as I go along. My internet and power is mostly stable, I can send pictures of things if it helps.

My next task is to pull out the battery bank and pop the hood. Try to follow and examine all the fuses and lines to make sure there are no obvious disconnects, breaks or melting.

What I know about the parts on this bus that might be relevant:
- VT365 International Motor
- Allison 2000 Transmission E004501

Thanks for any advice!

[adv_nomadic]

Pulled out the fuses relating to Ignition and ECM circuits, but nothing looks melted, broken, or burned out from what I can see. There was one loose cap over a fuse for the air intake, but I reseated the fuse and fastened the cap with no change in behavior.

Followed some battery wires under the chassis as well, but all the connectors I see are solid and still no breaks or melting along the cable runs that I can see.

Does anyone know of a way to get a hold of the Service Manual in PDF for this bus? I found a sketchy link online, but it didn't seem official enough for me to pay $50 for it.

[adv_nomadic]

Some more detail, getting a little closer. It appears to be something with the ECM/ESC modules either being dead or not connecting fully (whether by bad fuses, wiring or a connector coming loose).

I get these 5 fault codes, and I've matched them up with some fault code tables I found online the best that I could. Found this list in a forum discussing the VT365 engine, although it's not exactly the same issue.


4:240
639_ 14A
"Engine speed not communicated to the ESC"

241:254
639_ 14A
"Cruise control enable, active, state and vehicle speed not communicated to the ESC"

228:254
639_ 14A
"Wait to start lamp information not communicated to the ESC"

150:   1
2023_ 14P
"Loss of data link from ESC to primary EGC (150) or secondary EGC (250) Loss of communication in excess of 10 seconds"

150:   2
2023_ 14A
"Engine Controller not communicating with the primary EGC (150) or secondary EGC (250) Loss of communication in excess of 10 seconds"


Does anyone know where the ESC or ECM are usually located?

[lostagain]

You would get better help on one of the schooly sites. Folks on this site are into highway coaches, although there are many good mechanics here, we are not very familiar with school buses. Good luck fixing your bus.

[adv_nomadic]

You would get better help on one of the schooly sites. Folks on this site are into highway coaches, although there are many good mechanics here, we are not very familiar with school buses. Good luck fixing your bus.

Ahh, bummer! Good to know, thanks. I'll try a skooly specific forum.

[Dave5Cs]

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f5/

[azdieselman]

ECM will be mounted on the engine, along withe IDM and the EGR driver.

The ESC (Body Controller) is mounted in the left side kick panel. Its wiring comes through the bulkhead on the left side. It may have 1 or 2 heavy red power leads. The will come from the Mega Fuse (near the M/C). The ground will be on a stud on the bulkhead.

I would start in the battery box and work forward, The "clean power" harnesses are a known issue, I would wiggle them a bit and see if that helps.

[adv_nomadic]

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f5/

Thanks! I posted there shortly after. and got a couple responses.

ECM will be mounted on the engine, along withe IDM and the EGR driver.

The ESC (Body Controller) is mounted in the left side kick panel. Its wiring comes through the bulkhead on the left side. It may have 1 or 2 heavy red power leads. The will come from the Mega Fuse (near the M/C). The ground will be on a stud on the bulkhead.

I would start in the battery box and work forward, The "clean power" harnesses are a known issue, I would wiggle them a bit and see if that helps.

Thanks! I found some pics of the ECM online and realized it was right there under my nose (didn't know how large it was). I'm guessing the large connectors on the underside are to the other modules, but I also found some other relays and fuses nearby the ECM for the IDM and EGR. I re-seated all of those, except for the large connectors under the ECM (tough to get to and disconnect).

Then I went back to the fuse block and started pulling every fuse and checking. The diagram on the inside of the panel describes the main fuse panel, but nothing on the chassis panel other than the large fuse for the ESC. It's covered in some type of grease, so I couldn't see the condition. Decided to continue checking all the fuses in the chassis block. Lo and behold, there was a single 5A fuse that was in bad shape. Looked like an old fuse, no idea what it went to. Happened to have a 5A laying around and replaced it. While I was at it, I noticed another ignition system fuse that had a 10A fuse in it, but the diagram stated it should be 15A. Since I had an extra 15A, I replaced that one too (although the 10A fuse isn't damaged at all). After all that, it cranks! And the pedal gives gas.

I have no idea if re-seating the ECM cables and relays did it, or if that one 5A fuse happened to be the ticket. Either way, I got lucky on this one considering all the reading I've been doing and what other people have gone through. A learning lesson for sure.

[Fred Mc]

Well, there you just go.
Where do we send the bill?

[luvrbus]

Yep when you Kevin azdieselman on the problem with electronic he is man he teaches electronic controlled engines lol but he threw me out of class