Bus vs Super C

[Utahclaimjumper]

 Number of steps is also a function of length of travel from point to point..A curve will take more than a straight set of stairs for the same rise due to the increased length.>>>Dan

[rusty]

Well OK. I will have to rethink this. I thought rise is one function up and down and run its the horizontal distance the steps cover
Wayne

[someguy]

The cabin floor height on an H3-45 is 63 inches, as in 5 feet 3 inches.    The 5th wheel hitch height on most road tractors is about 4 feet.  So depending on how much cross frame the conversion adds above a truck's frame rails, a Super C will probably have a lower floor height than a modern bus.   Or about the same, depending on the model of the bus.

Maintenance wise, a modern bus uses very similar components to modern trucks.  Series 60 or similar engines, Allison transmissions compared to a Rockwell or Meritor, same tires, wheels, differential, driveshaft and basic cooling system.  A bus has a 90 degree drive box for the fan that a truck doesn't.   A bus has air disc brakes, most trucks have air drum brakes.  Newer buses have IFS instead of the straight axle a truck has.    A bus has a more complicated electrical system, but not by much once the passenger area stuff is stripped out.  Buses have much better documentation for working on their electrical system.  Truck dealers don't like to share manuals.     

I don't think a bus is much harder to work on than a truck.  Some things, especially the engine, are harder to get at.  However, the engine and transmission come out of a bus much easier than a truck.

Conversions wise, hands down a bus is easier to DIY.  With a truck you have to build the shell and storage bays, which is a huge undertaking.  A bus will not squash if it rolls over.  It would take some engineering to accomplish that with a truck shell.  A bus shell is a blank slate ready to be worked on.
   
A bus rides and drives way better than a Super C.  For the same overall length, a bus will have an extra 10 feet of living space.  FWIW, the max overall single vehicle length in NA is 45 feet in most jurisdictions.  Most day tractors have a bumper to back of cab of 11-12 feet. (VNL300 is 134.8 inches).  A bus is 5-6 feet from bumper to the back of the driver's seat and the area beside the driver's seat gets used as the entrance.   The actual space lost to the driving function is very small.

Super Cs give up a ton of storage space compared to buses.   Buses, however, have very poor ground clearance and breakover angles.   Some MCI E4500s have systems to raise the suspension for just this reason.

I've thought about building a Super C, but it is a non starter for me.  I get that people are tired of owning old, high maintenance buses.   The good news is that more modern shells are becoming available for very reasonable prices.  In most cases one can buy a good bus for less money than an equivalent used highway tractor.   

YMMV.
   

[Jim Blackwood]

My DL has 3 steps I'm pretty sure. You let the suspension down when you level it and the first step is normal height. Yes there is an incline inside but it's only about 3". So I don't know how a Super C can get that low. I could maybe measure it tomorrow but it's going to be a busy day so no promises.

Jim

[luvrbus]

My DL has 3 steps I'm pretty sure. You let the suspension down when you level it and the first step is normal height. Yes there is an incline inside but it's only about 3". So I don't know how a Super C can get that low. I could maybe measure it tomorrow but it's going to be a busy day so no promises.

Jim

Super C's won't go that low

[someguy]

An 11R24.5 tire stands 44 inches high.  The frame rails are about the same height as the top of the tires.

2007 D4500 Floor height is 50 inches.
https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/2007-MCI-D4500-5016085752

[luvrbus]

An 11R24.5 tire stands 44 inches high.  The frame rails are about the same height as the top of the tires.

No one is arguing that point but the Super C's with slides are not mounted on the frame but above it with channel the width depends on the slide used

[someguy]

I get that.   The frame rail height is the starting point before the floor cross members are added. 

[Jim Blackwood]

Just checked. 4 steps and 9 inches of ramp. Floor is at 47" from the ground. So I'd expect the Super C's floor to be at least a little higher. I'm pretty sure the driver's seat is. But maybe that difference isn't too important as long as you can avoid that vertical climb to get in the driver's door without too much in the way of gymnastics.

I drove a big Ryder's truck moving van many years ago, biggest one they rented as a box van and it wasn't too bad to drive. But you'd have to spend a ton of money on it to make it feel like a home instead of a delivery truck. I'm just not sure it would be worth it considering the alternatives. Certainly from the budget perspective it'd be a non-starter. All that puts me in mind of the common nickname for the old Coachman class A and similar S&S's which was, and you've all heard this: Bread Truck. Yes, it was indeed a bread truck, at least that was it's origin although the bread truck had a far more durable body, and it never got so far removed from it that you couldn't tell it either. Gussied up it as it was, with windows and paint, and not so fine furnishings, it was still a bread truck. And I'm very afraid that a Super C for a long time to come is going to be just another delivery van, though I have to say some of them are very nice. Sorry, no intention to offend, it's just the way I see it. Yes, by comparison my bus will always be a bus. I don't mind that though, intercity buses are known to be rugged and durable, and are generally seen as a cut above the more typical RV.

Jim

[TomC]

Many reasons listed is why I'm converting my 1985 Kenworth 90" Aerodyne cabover to a 40ft motorhome with separate garage for a car. I just got tired of dealing with the bus and it's 8V-71 (love the sound and the performance since turbo'ing it). But trying to find someone that can still work on the dinosaur is almost impossible-especially in the boonies. When I realized that no one wanted an old cabover, I decided (in 2008) to convert my truck. I extended the frame to 283" wheelbase (horrible turning radius-old school front end), took the 13spd manual out and had an Allison HT740 installed (man I wished I had that transmission when I was driving), had a custom 32ft box made by American Truck Body in Fontana, Ca with separate 13ft garage. The interior has 6'8" headroom, and 24" interior basement storage that has my 200gal water tank, 165gal gray tank, two converted Penquin A/C's, 3-31 batteries, plus a bunch of storage accessed from the inside. My 69gal black tank, 12kw gen, are under off the frame. I thoroughly enjoy driving it-so easy. Granted it is noisier (in a good way). I have twin air ride seats, added air ride cab, and it has 8 air bag rear suspension on fresh shock absorbers. With the Caterpillar 3406B 400hp mechanical, everyone knows how to work on them, plus Caterpillar still makes the engine for third world countries. Go for it-you'll like it alot. Good Luck,TomC

[someguy]

I'm not sure how a 1985 Kenworth with 1+ million miles would be more reliable than a modern bus chassis.    By modern, I mean something with a 4 stroke diesel engine and an Allison transmission.  All the basic components are the same.   Detroit S60s are about as reliable as they come and their weaknesses (bull gear) are well known.   

Yes, getting someone to work on a 1977 GMC bus with an 8V71 and an angle drive transmission will be difficult !   They are over 40 years old and that transmission was a bus specific item to begin with.  Nobody wants to work on 2 stroke diesels anymore, especially when it is installed in a bus.

I get that some people like to drive a truck more than a bus.  And I get that you cannot put a 13 foot garage on a bus.   But reliability wise, I am not sure what you gained by doing a truck conversion over a good bus chassis.   There are lots of H3-45 and E/J4500 coaches for sale these days, for very reasonable cost.   If you spent as much money converting a modern bus chassis as you are going to spend converting your truck, you'd have a fantastic bus.

As far as the garage goes, I'd rather pull an enclosed trailer and use it as a garage than have a garage built into my RV.  YMMV.

[Dave5Cs]

Number of steps is also a function of length of travel from point to point..A curve will take more than a straight set of stairs for the same rise due to the increased length.>>>Dan

That is incorrect Dan. If the height is the same it takes no more steps or risers it only elongates them. I cut stairs for homes and buildings for 46 years.

[Utahclaimjumper]

 That 's assuming all the risers being compared are the same height.>>>Dan

[chessie4905]

There is an OSHA code for stair risers. I believe the variance can be no more than 1/4" from one to another.

[Jim Blackwood]

Any more than that and you have a tripping hazard. If there is a variance it usually has to be at the bottom step. Also there is a permissible range for the rise. Stairs are dangerous and my hat goes off to anyone who has been building stairs for 46 years.

Jim