MCI Front Door hard to work with - air

[plyonsMC9]

Good evening bus folks,

Our DL3 has a front door that's a bit hard to maneuver when the air pressure gets low.  And that is fairly frequently until I have the time to fix the air leaks up there around the front leveler and/or air bags.  However, even after I fix those, I wonder what do you folks do w/ the front door to make it easy to open and close?  Do you have a supplemental air compressor and just use the switch to open/close the door?  Some magic way to make the door very easy to open and close w/o air pressure?  Or is it just "how it is" and it's not going to be easy to get in and out w/o a bit of muscle?

Thanks for your thoughts!, with kind regards, Phil

[Glennman]

My '02 MCI D4500 had the double air operated doors when I bought it. I have since changed it to a one-piece sedan door that uses no air at all. My '74 MCI has the sedan door, and no air is involved with it, although you can tell it did at some point in the past. I have noticed that a lot of converters want to keep the air operated system on their doors, but I really cannot figure out why. My sedan door has a regular Kwikset doorknob and the factory deadbolt. The door swings freely and is very simple to operate. The '02 was a fully seated bus when I bought it and now it is almost completely converted. Point being that during the conversion process over the last 2 years, I have opened and closed the door literally thousands of times. I could not imagine going in and out of the bus dozens of times each day with air operated mechanisms. I can slam the door with little effort and it latches every time. When underway, the deadbolt is locked so the door is plenty secure. Are you concerned with removing the air system? What would happen if you did?

[plyonsMC9]

Thank you!,

I have wondered re: removing the air system from the front door.  And I don't know enough to answer w/regard to my concerns as I don't know what is involved to remove it.  e.g., level of difficulty, finding/manufacturing parts if any, hours/days required, potential issues.  Would love to hear about it as it is a potential solution.  When the air is out of the door system, it's still not "smooth" to operate manually.  Wife is not a fan!  Current solution is a helper compressor - or let the air out for extended stays.

I should add that we have a one piece sedan door in the DL3.  Our MC9 has double air operated doors, but when the air is out of those doors they are very easy & smooth  to operate.  Not so much w/ the DL3.

With best regards, Phil

[luvrbus]

All the factory air on the door was removed from my DL I installed a air cylinder at the top of the door with a paddle valve on the outside and inside to lock and unlock the door, Yvan kept it since it worked better than the factory claw but added a RV door paddle lock, Phil there is a bearing with a adjustment on the bottom of the door it may need a little attention because those doors are usually smooth when unlocked   

[buswarrior]

The problem is that the D door is hydraulically dampened, it isn't just air pressure.

The door operator has anti-freeze in it to control the speed of opening/closing.

With the air off, or empty, you still are pushing against the controlling fluid.

The challenge: removing the fluid to lighten up the manual operation, the door will slam vigorously both open and closed, to the point of damaging itself, and/or injuring someone.

The operator also acts as the limiter for door travel, disconnecting or removing it puts the door at risk of being sent flying by the wind.

With all the D models being converted, the relative silence on this topic is curious?

Just what are they doing?

I am still deliberating on a solution for my own. keep the door claws, replace the door capturing with something, add a flush door latch of some sort...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

Flush door locks take some planning on the DL doors no one makes a flush door lock thick enough, so you need recess the latch I did mine to the inside and flush on the outside lol the Stainless steel inside the door and frame is not the easiest to work with either   

[Dave5Cs]

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALiCzsYgaL-rL5Z8ihRSmmJO7hsD93eFew:1672942239753&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=slam+locks+for+buses&client=firefox-b-1-d&fir=9NXbL48CUdrwIM%252CXnsAwTLeefcUkM%252C_%253BlgoKN0kxgEpURM%252CcXfzx8Ilc9EyRM%252C_%253B_qubI4qmnspw5M%252CnjBEmBckR2-L4M%252C_%253BmxqzJ8n0_2kfoM%252CCal1uW4_T5JcvM%252C_%253BMkyjTTqGZDTOsM%252Cb_3vMsrWE5NYiM%252C_%253BtHkoJCbZPd6GWM%252Cbl06pqnsRb-5qM%252C_%253BfX-zm97Zd_tmxM%252CJveuWYD9ccZ4lM%252C_%253BSqb4hN41SIolnM%252CF7xMzm5X8hnGPM%252C_%253BZ2hR1rR1EHWTvM%252CLtpi6txE7aV80M%252C_%253Bl8vZFTXkLjRUDM%252Czi12gvfZMF5-KM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQMuUT7vUeHE7tkDu8dXzAu4M_AvQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizkLi_g7H8AhVdtIkEHfZcDioQjJkEegQIEBAC&biw=1184&bih=527&dpr=1.62

We used a Slam lock that the firetrucks use with two rods that connect inside and outside. Door swings free but have a chain stop on it for wind.

[Jim Blackwood]

I've been thinking about it, leaving it the way it is isn't going to work and rigging a compressor to always maintain operating pressure seems wasteful. I do like the clamping claw and plan to keep that.

I have a spare cylinder and when I get time to look at it I plan to see if I can find an electric strut the same length. Maybe something off an SUV might work.

Jim

[luvrbus]

There are grease fitting for the claw and linkage most have been greased 1 time and that was at the factory

[buswarrior]

I am curious to see what the resistance is with all the dampening anti-freeze removed, leaving the plugs out if necessary, then, remove and cap the operator air lines.

That way, the operator stays in its "capture the door" role, without all the heaving, claws are intact, add the aftermarket camper door latch to keep it closed.

Some microswitch respect required to keep the claws working right.

If i had a warm place to work...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Glennman]

Granted, I have yet to devise something to keep the wind from grabbing the door while camping. On the door latch, I installed a solid piece of plastic (about 2 1/4" thick and about 8"x8") in the door where the lock installs. That gave it some "body" so all the mechanisms aren't just floating in the hollow door area. Then I was able to drill that out for the lockset similar to a solid core door. I routered out the interior side for the lockset to compensate for the super thick door. It really came out very well. Once I got into the door inners, I found that there is a 2 1/2" or so knockout behind the door skin that was perfect for the Kwikset. I drilled the typical 2 1/8" hole (?) in the skin at the knockout and installed the lock. It was much easier than if the knockout wasn't there, because it is more difficult to drill the door otherwise. Being that I installed a sedan door in lieu of the double doors, there was no airlock grab device or any other air device at all that would adapt. That's why it is a totally free-swinging door. Both hinges have grease fittings to maintain (it is correct that those are probably greased once in its lifetime).

[Satelliteguy]

Good day Bus guys, I have read and re-read this post and have not seen anything yet on a solution. I have the 92 MCI 102 C3 and a standard one piece door. The manually operated hand air valve under the dash will allow me to open the door without the use of the dash switch, it swings freely with little resistance. The issue I am having is the hand valve it leaking. I want to replace it or remove it all together. I ordered a valve from Amazon and after it arrived found it was not a direct replacement, it would require a but of rework to make it fit. I am thinking of just caping off the air line and see what happens. Has anyone found a solution or have any other suggestions to fix the door issue.

[windtrader]

I just had an issue with that override and posted on BGM. Mine is a MC-8 and I never could figure out what that thing did until this last trip it was partially open and leaking air. Could not tell what was causing the leak but determined the lever was the cause. Once closed, the leaking stopped.


The PO disabled the air lock. There is no noise or action when the main door is closed via the main lever. It is adjusted to provide tension to keep the door tight without the air lock.


When the override lever is flipped up, I do hear some noise so I guess it tries to release the air lock but since it is already in an unlocked position it doesn't do much of anything.


So folks have totally blocked it off and removed the override lever. At the moment,  I'm fine with it as it is, just need to ensure the lever is totally down.

[Satelliteguy]

Windtrader, thank you for your reply, my 102 C3 does not have a manual door close handle that allows me to close the door. I can disable the dash switch control by releasing the air valve under the dash, then I can push or pull the door to open or close it. I have a manual ( added by PO ) door lock with a slid bar inside and a key lock outside. The lever that releases the air under the dash is leaking air pretty badly. I looked to buy another one and ordered one online. It was the wrong one, looking online some more I did find one that looks like the one I have but I see no reason to pay over $500.00 dollars for it.

Thanks again and I hope yours works well enough for your purpose.

 SatelliteGuy ( Bob)

[plyonsMC9]

Whoa!  Sorry folks.  I lost track of the thread I started here.  Thank you for all the thoughts and suggestions.  I will read through these and respond back.  As far as I know this door is still an issue.  Ready to make me a crazy person.  The DL3 has been out for a while at Leisure Coach and now J&R Diesel.  When I get it back I'll be looking at this issue first-hand.

Thank you all!!!
Phil