4104 Fan Hub Puller

[Nova Eona]

Hi all!  I'm in the midst of a cooling system refresh and have become stumped by the fan hub.  I'm going to pull it off and have it rebuilt (Industrial Screen & Maintenance, Casper WY, $275), but I do not have the special puller and can't find one online anywhere.  I've tried pulling by the outer flange with three-jaw and crowsfoot pullers, but while I can get the outer shell to move forward a quarter inch or so, the inner piece is not budging and the rubber clearly starts to fail at that point.  Questions are as follows -

First, anyone have a clue where I could get one of these old pullers?  The maintenance manual calls it a 80-0041 by Bacharach Industrial Equipment Co, and from Facebook groups I've learned the Kent Moore equivalent is a J-5356.

Second, failing the above, does anyone know what would happen if I just kept pulling on the outer flange more and more?  I'm not concerned about the rubber, but I don't want to damage the metal pieces somehow, plus I suspect that if I yank hard enough the entire outer flange could come off without budging the inner one.  Suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

[luvrbus]

You keep pulling and you will pull the locks out of place then you have a mess ,A DD dealer will probably lend you the Kent J 5356 if they haven't toss it

[dtcerrato]

Rob from the rust I'm seeing the hub is probably seized (rust welded) onto the crankshaft. Unfortunately the Kent More tool retails for $500! I've had our hub on and off multiple times with a standard puller without issue but without the rusty condition. I'm not familiar with the Kent More tool but assume it threads into the hub threaded portion with a screw bolt in the center that pushes on the center hole in the crankshaft. If you could find the measurement of the hub threads it could be fabricated for a lot less - just thinking outside the box here. Question? Why are you looking to get the hub rebuilt? From the looks of the photo the fused rubber doesn't look all that bad. was there a lot of fan blade movement if you grabbed a blade by hand and tried to move it? We recently went to an oversized fan hub that fit the 671 crank but had to be machine work on the fan, It has been issue free for a few years now. Please keep us posted on your progress as there's a lot of 04 owners with the same situation.

[luvrbus]

If the local DD dealer has a after cooler plug for the turbo v models engines blocks. that plug is the same thread you can build a puller using a 3/4 bolt and drilling the center of the plug out for the bolt.You will not find a used plug those are impossible to remove in one piece even with the K/M tool made for it.I had a guy helping me that used a jaw puller on a new 8v92 pulley he didn't ask for the puller I have and it cost me $1300.00 for new pulley ,you are replacing the drive so tug on it a little more unless you are doing a exchange then they frown on the drive tore apart

[Nova Eona]

Question? Why are you looking to get the hub rebuilt? From the looks of the photo the fused rubber doesn't look all that bad. was there a lot of fan blade movement if you grabbed a blade by hand and tried to move it?

The original answer to this question was that there wasn't undue fan movement, but I had the radiator out for service anyway and figured it'd be a good time to preventatively tackle a known catastrophic failure point.  Now the answer is that I've yanked on this thing enough that I don't trust the rubber anymore!  Having a custom puller machined is definitely an option I'll be looking into if I don't get a hail mary elsewhere.

If the local DD dealer has a after cooler plug for the turbo v models engines blocks. that plug is the same thread you can build a puller using a 3/4 bolt and drilling the center of the plug out for the bolt.You will not find a used plug those are impossible to remove in one piece even with the K/M tool made for it.I had a guy helping me that used a jaw puller on a new 8v92 pulley he didn't ask for the puller I have and it cost me $1300.00 for new pulley ,you are replacing the drive so tug on it a little more unless you are doing a exchange then they frown on the drive tore apart

Now that is an interesting idea - I can't find the aforementioned plug anywhere online, but I'll have to do some inquiries this week to see if any local dealers might have one I can use as a base to fab up a puller.  I'm hoping to re-use everything but the rubber here, so I am trying to be a bit careful about applying enough force to bother the metal bits.

[dtcerrato]

I understand your proactiveness but if all else fails if you were to put the fan back on and see how stiff the blade movement is and it passes to what you felt before than I'd say it's good to go. I say this because when you started pulling and you witnessed a 1/4" deflection - that is actually a fine test of it's integrity showing resilience in the rubber and it's superior bond to metal inner & outer hub pieces. When these hubs fail one of the rubber bonds to either the inner of outer metal starts to detach and shows fan blade excessive movement on the failing hub way before it actually completely fails. We rolled into the mention of the Blytheville rally in another post with a "failing fan hub" that started showing signs of fan blade excessive movement on the trip up to AK from FL. While in AK I purchased the over rated hub and carried it back to FL for upgrading. The stock hub is rated to handle approx. 36 HP of load. The larger hub I upgraded to is rated at 64 HP of load. BTDT two times in the past 44 years. They don't "just go out". I'm actually surprised you found a source that will restore the hub. Very interesting situation you've got going. Thanks for sharing it & look forward to your progress.
The attached photo is our 1st hub failure in May of 1987, that's me with the popes hat on in the Mojave dessert almost ready to climb the I-5 Grapevine back into LA. We jury rigged the failed hub to try and limp the leaky rad back home and it let loose again half way up the Vine - those were the days... We know about those hubs. Good Luck.

[luvrbus]

I have changed a few 4104 over to the 9 blade Norton nylon fan to do away with the heavy steel fan blade,I had a 6 blade stainless flex blade I gave away it was lite too,If Robert doesn't pick it up this fall I am going to give away again   

[chessie4905]

Give Luke a call. He may offer a work around idea. Maybe thread's match a large pipe nipple. Won't  hurt to ask him. Otherwise, have a machinist come and measure it and cut a pipe stub and thread it. Then weld on a 1/2 or 3/4 steel top and thread it for a push bolt.
In the meantime, clean the rust from stub and spray frequently with favorite penetrant.

[luvrbus]

The puller is made from solid stock they are not cheap to have made if you can find a machine shop that can cut the special threads ,the block plugs under the blower are the same thread, it is not a pipe thread or size,mine use the same 3/4 bolt through the center like my Proto puller uses,and takes a 1-1/2 wrench to screw the body to whatever you are pulling   

[chessie4905]

Post on Detroit Diesel on Facebook. May find someone that has one, hopefully nearby

[Nova Eona]

So I got ahold of a J-5356 puller finally!  Alas, the dang thing won't thread in straight - no matter what angle or rotation I approach with, it'll only start to engage at a clear off-angle and only for a few degrees.  I've already brushed out the female threads with a brass wire brush and run the male threads through an OTC style thread chaser, but no luck.  Any ideas?

[luvrbus]

Check the hub for being out of round ,the puller is not going to be out of round for sure ,I am going to check and see if I have after cooler plug if it screws in then the threads are wrong on the puller BTDT

[Nova Eona]

Well I have a new favorite tool for the week, I can highly recommend the Rotary Thread now
https://www.amazon.com/Rotary-Thread-RTK1-1-Starter-Restore/dp/B085LRZZPS/

Ran that through the upper threads for a few minutes and was pretty much able to run the puller in by hand, definitely going into my BS toolkit.  Now to finally send the dang thing off for repair!

[dtcerrato]

That is great news. Please keep us posted on the repair.

[luvrbus]

Well I have a new favorite tool for the week, I can highly recommend the Rotary Thread now
https://www.amazon.com/Rotary-Thread-RTK1-1-Starter-Restore/dp/B085LRZZPS/

Ran that through the upper threads for a few minutes and was pretty much able to run the puller in by hand, definitely going into my BS toolkit.  Now to finally send the dang thing off for repair!

The tool sure beats the old hand chasers I may get one