Waste Motor Oil for fuel.

[wal1809]

Maybe yall have noticed the alt fuel topics here lately have been stretching out the pages and fast.  I like it too.

[JohnEd]

I guess mine will be the test unit then.  I am going to run WVO until the wheels fall off or a piston shoots through the roof.  If there is information I can get before success or failure then I will certainly pay attention too and use it. 

Wal,

Being the test bed is a really good thing.  Means lots of eyeballs on you and plenty of opinion and advice. 

I offered to send you my scope so you could look at and take pics of the cylinder chamber and injector tip.  I owe you a favor of that sort based on your past generosity...and even if I didn't.  I will also send you some money to pay for the additional tests that you perform to document conditions.  Maybe someone here has contacts in a lab.  I used to have a friend that ran a coolant eval lab and I got that service for free.  I don't know anyone in the oil eval business.  Have you or has anyone ever sent in a WVO sample to be evaluated at a motor oil lab?  Would WVO have any sulfur in it at all?  What other content would a lab analysis turn up?

Clifford has mentioned 3,000 mile oil changes if you use WVO as a possibility.  Starting this thing out at what interval should you have the MO tested to insure you are safe from that standpoint?  I suppose you would test till it showed you "needed" and oil change and that would become your sched interval?

You mentioned polymerization and a couple other things I am certain everyone here doesn't understand.  Don't ask why I am certain of that.  Leads me to believe that we have a concern for something(s) developing in the MO that is associated with the WVO fuel.  What are they and how can we test for them?  Seems like I am loading you.  You are being loaded, for sure, but we only do that because we are sure you can handle it and more importantly, you are one of the willing.

Let me know about the fibreoptic scope.  No worries...if it craps out, so be it.  Just one of the Harbor Freight deals.  Maybe that is another eval.   Of the test equip used?

Get back to me when it is convenient.

John

[wal1809]

I am definately up to it.  I am about to start class right now and as soon as it is over I have to get back to camp, break it down, pack it up and head for home.  I got called in to testify on a case I don't want to lose.  I am expecting to get home late late late!! I have to get up early, go get the evidence from the proerty room and then read the reports I wrote over the several weeks during the investigation.  I do believe I will be bed bound after that.  So give me a day or two to come back to earth and we will hash it out.  Oh and I will take the loading up of assignments as a compliment.

[kyle4501]

. . . .  When we hit $8.00 who will still be driving a bus?

More than you think.

The price of fuel won't stop me from using my bus. It may influence the type of trips we take, but we will still use it every chance we get & go coast to coast when desired.

I am taking steps to make mine as fuel efficient as possible, but I'll just include the cost of the fuel as I do now.

[JohnEd]

Oh and I will take the loading up of assignments as a compliment. Grin

It is intended as one!

John 

[wal1809]

. . . .  When we hit $8.00 who will still be driving a bus?

More than you think.

The price of fuel won't stop me from using my bus. It may influence the type of trips we take, but we will still use it every chance we get & go coast to coast when desired.

I am taking steps to make mine as fuel efficient as possible, but I'll just include the cost of the fuel as I do now.

I definately commend you for thinking fuel economy.  as fuel prices are now your looking at a $3000 trip.  Do-able yes, Do I want to pay that no.  If it goes to $8 a gallon that is a $6000 trip.  That s a lot of money.  I, like you will do what I have to do to keep driving my bus.  I need it more than one trip a year.

[JohnEd]

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1VnQzHNGXRyCebpS17oI-wdNa9gLAQwfIgsstjZfeGJzxeOAHwgZ3t6Bu9e9C&hl=en_US

This is a copy of the oil analysis I got back from Peterson Car Labs.  The objective was to determine what effect dilution of WMO with 20% regular gas had on settling out contaminated oil.   My pedestrian conclusion is that the RUG did not cause contaminants to settle out.  The WMO sample was taken from a local shop and it was only light brown from use and it had some anti freeze in it that affected nothing.  I did note that the sulfur content went up with the RUG dilution and I conclude that the RUG had a sulfur content.  White gas, non road grade, fuel might make a superior blend ingredient if it has no sulfur content.  I'll leave it to the Wizards to tell us if that sulfur content is beyond the limits that a DD 2 stroke can handle.  Wizards??

All of the discussion by anyone that claimed to be a blender contained cautions on settling times and filtering.  They all mentioned that huge quantities of crap fell out of suspension when the WMO was first diluted with RUG.  The viscosity of diesel WMO is supposed to go up with usage due to the introduction of SOOT.  The RUG, apparently, allows the soot to fall out.  The blenders settle their fuel for more than three days.  My test showed no measurable soot so I only settled my sample for a day and a half.  The viscosity reduction achieved by blenders seems to have two causes.  The RUG being much lower in viscosity lowers the viscosity of the blend appropriately.  Additionally, the WMO viscosity is raised significantly by the soot it carries in suspension and that soot is allowed to settle out by dilution of the WMO with RUG.

While this test, such as it is, was only useful to me to demonstrate that the only chemical improvement to WMO would be the reduction in carbon and viscosity excluding the minor reductions of components due the dilution alone.  I will pay WAL to repeat this test with a sample taken from one of his D engines....preferably the DD in his bus.  Unless he mutinys, that is.

Hope the link works so I can get some feedback,  comments welcome.

John

[wal1809]

Mighty interesting results.  Definately have to deal with the water.  No mutiny here, I just need some time.

[happycamperbrat]

That is a big turn off to doing wmo..... because from what I recall when I looked into it before, anti-freeze was a big problem in collecting from garages and stuff. Seems the mechanics dont read the sign that says "Waste Motor Oil Only" and think it says "Fluid Trash Bin"

[Lonnie time to go]

just curious is there a process to get the antifreeze out of used motor oil

thanks

Lonnie

[JohnEd]

Teresa,

WMO in a garage being suspect of contamination was always a given.  Any one that has worked in a shop or spent much time there knows that brake fluid and solvents go in that tank and coolant as well.  The rule has always been that YOU must know your source.  

Testing for water content isn't all that hard and should be done regardless of the trust you have in the source.  Spilling a large drop of oil on a hot(250F) surface will demonstrate the water content.  Water boils and oil doesn't.  No bubbles is a good thing.

We send off a sample of our oil to be analyzed with every oil change.  If that analysis shows water or coolant its suitability as a fuel additive falls to the bottom of the list.  Oil gets changed at annual or sooner rates in a car...DD call for anything less?  Hot oil gets changed so water shouldn't be an issue...coolant, maybe.

Don't abandon ship just yet.  That MO is a suitable fuel has never been the question.  Can it be made a safe and long term viable fuel is the question.  How to get the harmful contaminants out is the challenge.  Soot removal seems to be doable with the dilution with RUG and settling.  "Seems" is the operative word and oil analysis will answer that.  How clean is permissible is a hanging point as anything in the fuel that shouldn't be there is a discouraging factor.  But, realistically, the consequence should be that the life of the engine dramatically shortened or life cycle costs are prohibitive.  I think WAL: has penciled out his justification and it should guide us all if substantiated.  He saves sufficiently on fuel burning WVO that he can tolerate more frequent overhauls and justify their expense.

John

[JohnEd]

just curious is there a process to get the antifreeze out of used motor oil

thanks

Lonnie

A centrifuge de-waters oil and I suspect it would also eliminate coolant.  To my knowledge, water and coolant are not dissolved in oil but are held in suspension.  The addition of RUG accelerates that settling process by reducing the viscosity of the "blend".  In theory the coolant should settle out of its own accord but how long that will take is the question.  The blenders put the time required at a few days.

John

[Paso One]

just curious is there a process to get the antifreeze out of used motor oil

thanks

Lonnie

 In theory the coolant should settle out of its own accord but how long that will take is the question.  The blenders put the time required at a few days.

John

In my set up I believe the water settles out in weeks not days.  I would go along with " some water settles out in days but not all.

I have gas valve drains on the bottom of all tanks.  I can drain water and a/f  out after a few days. but without adding any more oil in the same tank I can come back and drain an addtional gallon of water or more in 2 weeks.

I believe the water being heavier than the oil goes to the bottom, but some water must take longer to get to the bottom.

On the "property" there is an old oil refinery centifuge, it is as big as a dump truck so I can not ever see making it operational.

However there is an old  "medical " centifuge that keeps catching my eye that I may "play with " in the future.

In my operation that extra process may not do anything to benefit burning it in the furnace.

However in might be handy to know first hand for those with other ideas

[luvrbus]

Water should not be that hard to remove what would concern me is all the chemicals in antifreeze how would one remove the Glyco with a filter

[JohnEd]

Paso,

The blenders say that after mixing in the RUG the "junk" settles out much quicker...days.  Its their "lie" not mine.  I would drain off the accumulated water after one day, then day two, then one week, and week two. and so on til I got no more water.  Then I would know how long it took for sure and make a safety margin from that.  You sound like a few weeks gets it all...correct?  And what do you blend?

The test for water is pretty simple and involves dropping oil on a hot plate.  Sizzles and bubbles are the fail indication.

HHO will tolerate more water than internal combustion.  I don't remember those guys ever doing a test. I congratulate you on your use of WMO for heating.  Seems like a blow for justice and the environment.

Go to a site named "Simple Centrifuge" and they have the spec on the G forces required to "clean" oil.  That thing costs $1400 as I recall and no matter what fuel you are reclaiming I think that system is a must.  Especially if you are space challenged.

Thanks for your comments,


John